a couple of interesting hands from the Bike (5-10NL)

[riverboatking]

hand one:
i have ~2K, villian has ~2K.

no great read on button, although he doesn't seem that great. and i think he is a little peeved at me, because i have taken away a couple of pots from him earlier.

i'm in the SB with QQ.
folded to villian who limps on the button, i raise to 80, he is the only caller.

flop is Q83 two clubs.
i lead for 100, he calls.

turn is an offsuit 10.
i check he bets 200 quickly, i raise to 500.
he calls instantly.

river is the the jack of clubs.

i lead for 500.

thoughts/comments?

second hand: i have ~3K and villian has ~2K.
i have AQ of hearts on the button. three limpers to me i make it 75 to go.
SB who is the villian in this hand calls, he is a pretty solid player, MP who is very weak-tight/predictable nut peddeler calls as well.

three to the flop of A45 rainbow.
checked to me i bet 200.
SB calls pretty quickly, MP thinks for a while and finally folds reluctantly.

turn comes K, still a rainbow board.
SB leads for 150.
i call.
thoughts on the turn?

river comes A. final board AAK45.
he leads for 200.
i call.
thoughts comments?

[nate1729]

I'm not sure I like the river bet in the first hand. From what you've described I'm not sure you can get him off a 9 there, yet he'll have a hard time calling with hands like AA or 88. Normally I like blocking bets but I'm not sure this is a great spot for it. Checking leaves you in a tough spot, but I'm not sure it's much worse than where you are if you bet (indeed, if you have a good read on this guy you might be able to induce a bluff.)

Oh, and any particular reason you raised to 80 preflop? For value against a guy you thought was gunning for you, perhaps?

I like your line on the second hand. I like the call on the river, as I don't think you can fold for 200 more, yet it could easily be a value-bet from AK or a blocking bet from 44 or 55. I also like your not raising the turn, as it's hard to imagine you can extract much more money from a worse ace that way, and you can easily put yourself in a tough spot against a tricky player here.

[fsuplayer]

hand two looks good. I think he has a weak ace and is trying to get to the showdown cheap.

hand one is tougher. i would have bet a little more on the flop and CR'd a little more on the turn.

the river here is pretty tricky, id like to hear some others opinions on your blocking bet.

[ML4L]

[ QUOTE ]
hand two looks good. I think he has a weak ace and is trying to get to the showdown cheap.

hand one is tougher. i would have bet a little more on the flop and CR'd a little more on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

My sentiments exactly (although sometimes I check the flop in hand two).

As for the river bet in Hand 1, if you're going to make that bet, you had better be darn sure about what to do if raised. Presuming that is the case and that he wasn't likely to be on a draw, I like it.

In Hand 2, it's also possible that he has a set or something and is playing it like a little girl, but that has no bearing on the correct line. You aren't especially likely to get heavy action from a second best hand if you raise, so you just have to live with the blocking bets.

Hope both worked out.

ML4L

[italianstang]

I agree the the river bet on hand number one was sketchy. Assuming you can beat anything but a flush, that needs to be taken in to account. If he does have a flush, he will call and win. If he doesn't have a flush, he will be scared of it and fold. Its kind of like one of those Sklansky-book hands where you are only going to get called when you are beat. Of course you can hope that he has a smaller set or something.

[fsuplayer]

no one is folding a straight there the way it played out. at least i wouldnt.

[aggie]

Good job on hand 2.

IMO, i would check call the river on hand 1 (possibly fold if he bets big and convinces you he has the flush). If your hand is good here, the bad news is, he will probably just check it down, but probably would not have paid you off regardless (unless he's got a smaller set in which case, he'll probably bet anyway).

-So if he's got a set, he'll bet, and you'll get paid off anyway.
-if he's got a flush, you'll probably pay him off, but it will probably be cheaper this way (you might even be able to get away from the hand with a VERY good read).

Does this sound right to you FSU?

[NickPoker]

Hand 1: I would of made a pot sized bet on the flop and the turn (maybe bigger on the turn). On the turn, after you checked and he raised to $200, I would of gone all in, if the guy was any good he would lay down a club draw here, and you would take down a good sized pot. If he has a smaller set you take all of his money. If he has the straight you still have 10 outs (I am guessing he didn't if he didn't re-raise). If you wanted a call you played it right, personally I would try to take it down right there, and take my chances he wasn't playing 10/9.

Second hand, the turn is where you made your decision, once you called here I would trust my original instincts. I think you played it right, but it depends on what type of player he is. His bets were weak compared to the pot, I would put most on a weak ace, I would be a little concerned if you were up against a strong player. With that being said, once you called the turn I would call the river.

[anduril]

Am I the only one who thinks the turn check in hand 1 is a little insane? 1) he open limps in the best position, so his range of hands can be very wide 2) he calls your flop bet of more than 1/2 the pot and then the board is Q 8 3 10 with two clubs. I'm pretty sure if you checked to me it would be the best free card I could ever take in my entire life unless I had a set myself or had J9c. I also think the c/r is too low since you give him 3.5ish/1 to see a river and take a nice pot away.

[riverboatking]

ok, so here is what happened and what i was thinking.

hand one:
i bet 500, he calls instantly, my hand is good, i didn't see his hand.

as i said earlier i had taken a couple of pots away from this guy by calling his pot bet in position then betting the turn after he showed weakness, and he had muttered a couple of times "i should have bet" under his breath after the hand.

so in this hand i tried to play right into that mentality.
i make the raise out of position, then flop a monster. i made what i hoped would look like a weakish bet trying to pick up the pot.

then on the turn when i check raised him, something about the way he called instantly made me think he had a made hand, i was thinking either 10-8 suited or Q10.

so on the river i wasn't (in my mind) making a blocking bet, i knew he wouldn't put me on the flush draw the way the hand played out, and 500 was about what i thought he would call me with two pair. if he had the set i think he pushes the turn.
as i said this guy was a little looseish, without realizing it. i think he thought he was much trickier/solid then he really was, and as sklansky says he was one of those guys that likes to realize things.


hand two:
i think i played this hand like a pussy. i really thought he had a weaker ace and that his bets were blocking bets, yet i still didn't raise him. i think if i raise the river to 600 (he bet 200) he would have paid me off with his A10.

the board was so non-threating on the turn that i don't think a set would lead out here, because he knows that i know he is a solid player (not tricky mind you, just solid) so i am less likely to raise him.
and the key to the whole hand, was MP actions on the flop. he looked like it was causing him so much pain to fold the flop, and he kept agonizing over it, that i think both the SB and myself put him on a weak ace, making it less likely (in our respective minds) that the other one had an ace.

i think that in the end the MP actions stopped me from raising, as i didn't think he had an ace, and so there was no hand i was beating, that would pay me off.

i thought this second hand was so interesting because it demonstrates how effective a blocking bet can be, even when your opponent (in this case me), is almost 100% sure its a blocking bet!