Flopping middle set

[fire_fly]

brand new to pl omaha, and middle set is getting me in trouble.

I flop middle set on a non strait or flush board. I bet the pot, someone behind me raises the pot. Am I supposed to fold? Call? I've been reraising often here and hurting because of it, so how easy should middle set be to get away from?

[joewatch]

This topic has been covered before. I know a lot of people will put it all-in with middle set.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
on a non strait or flush board

[/ QUOTE ]

These situations should allow you to lay down middle set more often than in those situations where draws are present. And the lower that middle set is, like 777-TTT, then the more willing you should be to lay it down when you have no draws yourself.

[LA_Price]

This is essentially not an omaha question but a pure poker question. Whether you go call or reraise depends on whether you think your opponent would reraise you with a worse hand. Think what your opponent puts you on and what their standards are for reraising. If they are predictable and tight and never bluff or semi-bluff then you should probably pass. If they are loose and aggressive or if perhaps you have played the hand deceptively and raised preflop they might be putting you a different hand than the one you have and you should play the hand for your entire stack. hope this helps.

[Filip]

Not sure there is any easy answer to this one. Flopped 3 middles sets today, lost all. Two of them to topset, one i folded to bottom set.

Otherdays i dodge em and get paid off.

Today i did a really horrible river call, i got 66xx

flop: 4 6 T, turn: blank, river 4

i had position and called pot bets on all streets. So damn bad it aint funny. A simply raise on the flop would have made a fold easy if he had repotted it. And the river..... i mean even if he had bottom set he now hit his 1 outer and yet i call. Ive played good the whole month so i can "afford" one horrible play.

[fire_fly]

"These situations should allow you to lay down middle set more often than in those situations where draws are present"

I meant, on flops where no one could have flopped a strait or flush, but they could have the draw. I put some situations into an Omaha calculator, and found that sets have a huge advantage over even the best draws, so I'm hoping they have str8 and flush draws only.

Problem is, I'm running into top set and drawing to 1 out more often than not [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

So you are saying I have 77xx and flop comes K 7 2, I should lay it down to a reraise pot size bet because they couldn't have anything but a set?

[BluffTHIS!]

I did misunderstand what you meant regarding flop types, but the example you gave of K72r is a good one where you can *often* save some money with middle set when oversetted. At the lower limits, you would be less likely to fold because players play more low pairs and have uncoordinated hands with a K and a 7 in them. But at higher limits you don't have as much of a cushion of being against those types of worse hands to make up for the times you are beat. So the higher the stakes, the more you have to consider folding middle set even on a drawing board when you have no kind of draw yourself.

If someone ovesets me in no limit HE, then they are 95% of the time going to get all my money, except in situtations like an unraised pot or 2 raises in front of me on the flop. But in omaha, you don't always have to go broke with middle set. Like LA said above, this is also just playing good poker and knowing your opponents. The tighter they are the more you consider folding, and the looser and more likely to have bottom set or a ragged top 2 like K7, then the more you consider just raising and getting it all in the middle.

[ QUOTE ]
I put some situations into an Omaha calculator, and found that sets have a huge advantage over even the best draws, so I'm hoping they have str8 and flush draws only.

[/ QUOTE ]
The "best" draws are str8 and flush draws at the same time. For example:

Player 1 has : J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Player 2 has : A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Board is : J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Result
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1301480

pokenum -o js jh 7c 7s - ad kc qd 9c -- td jd 2c
Omaha Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing 2c Jd Td
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Js 7s 7c Jh 353 43.05 467 56.95 0 0.00 0.430
Kc 9c Ad Qd 467 56.95 353 43.05 0 0.00 0.570

[fuzzbox]

A bigger draw:

If you make the 4-aces live and the 4-7s live then this is quite a big fave.
This doesnt happen often though.


http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1302479
pokenum -o js jh 6c 6s - 8d kc qd 9c -- td jd 2c
Omaha Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing 2c Jd Td
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Js 6s 6c Jh 326 39.76 494 60.24 0 0.00 0.398
Kc 9c Qd 8d 494 60.24 326 39.76 0 0.00 0.602