New to NL, KK hand

sammy_g · #1 06-30-2005, 10:15 PM

I'm a winning middle limit hold'em player trying to learn NL. The mantra of limit is usually bet, bet, bet, so here I bet, bet, bet.

This is literally my first hand at the table, and I don't have any reads. Any comments welcome.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 6 handed) converter

MP ($158.95)
CO ($124.05)
Button ($86.45)
SB ($111.75)
Hero ($99)
UTG ($151.55)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.5.
1 fold, MP calls $1, 1 fold, Button calls $1, SB (poster) completes, Hero raises to $4, MP calls $4, Button calls $4, SB calls $4.

Flop: ($20) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $15, MP folds, Button folds, SB calls $15.

Turn: ($50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $30, SB calls $30.

River: ($110) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $49 (all in), SB calls $49.

Final Pot: $159

Rockatansky · #2 06-30-2005, 10:18 PM

Check behind on river.

iceman5 · #3 06-30-2005, 10:23 PM

I probably play the river more passively than most people, but Im shoving it in on the river this time.

I really doubt he has you beat.

EchoOfThunder · #4 06-30-2005, 10:25 PM

there were no draws out in the hand to justify him calling those bets. The way I see it, youre only getting called on the river by hands that are ahead of you. If he called down with QQ, he just hit his set. If he had JJ or lower, he's not calling the river. If he had AA or 99 or a 5, he played it very strangely, but you have to look at it as a situation where youre only getting called by hands youre losing to.

mother_brain · #5 06-30-2005, 10:38 PM

You can also raise it to 6 preflop when 2/3s of the table has already limped in, you want to eliminate a couple of them right there.

Edit: Other than that played pretty well. I'm probably checking the river with no reads. Its a tuffy though.

sammy_g · #6 07-01-2005, 01:10 PM

OK thanks everyone for your comments. I guess I assumed if he had a 5 or 99 or something he would have bet the river since there are many hands I check here. So I made a thin value bet -- maybe a bad one because I don't know what he calls with that I beat.

I have two questions:

If villain, first to act, pushes on the river, do you call?

If the flop was 952 rainbow instead of 595, do you bet the river?

Thanks!

blackaces13 · #7 07-01-2005, 01:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If villain, first to act, pushes on the river, do you call?

[/ QUOTE ]

You only have $49 left and the pot would be $159 so I think that getting over 3:1 you pretty much have to call there since it could just be a desperation bluff or a frustrated move made by an underpair like TT.

savman · #8 07-01-2005, 01:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
there were no draws out in the hand to justify him calling those bets. The way I see it, youre only getting called on the river by hands that are ahead of you. If he called down with QQ, he just hit his set. If he had JJ or lower, he's not calling the river. If he had AA or 99 or a 5, he played it very strangely, but you have to look at it as a situation where youre only getting called by hands youre losing to.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, 100NL you are getting called all the way down by 1010 JJ 88 on this board as well as any nine. A lot of weak players are just calling here with a set so if I was checked to on the river i would check as well here.

savman · #9 07-01-2005, 02:05 PM

You defenitely need to raise at least the pot preflop. Four times the big blind just says "I have a big hand, here is a good price to try and crack it." Also, even though I said hands you are ahead of call you on the river, I was speaking in general about this board. Given the fact SB completed into a multiway pot and is calling all the way down, you really need to think he might have a five here. A line I use a lot in the situation, is checking the turn. You have position on this guy, use it. Bet the flop. When he checks to you on the turn, just check. There are no real draws out there and you are either way ahead or way behind. I also call a reasonable river bet. A benefit of checking the turn with position is villan may put you on a whiffed flop and figure you for a continuatoin bet, causing him to "value bet" his nine. In this case you get an extra bet out of the nine that he may not have called, and you can always value bet the river yourself. You have position here, use it. Agression is good but dont just fire wildly into the ether, ask yourself why am i betting

Godfather80 · #10 07-01-2005, 02:40 PM

The only thing I'd do differently is check behind on the river. [And, although I do like the check behind on the turn idea, I wonder if you are increasing your chances of being bluffed off by a worse hand on the river by an observant opponent.]
Playing the hand through as your opponent, it would seem that you are going to see a 5 a decent amount after he has willingly check-called large bets on the flop and turn. For this line of play, few other hands make sense, unless your opponent is very poor. Therefore, while I understand your reasoning for the river bet, I think it is -EV in the long run.