The left's need for more taxes -

[slamdunkpro]

This was going on the Howard Dean thread and I thought it warranted it’s own.

Warren Buffett (Ultra super rich limo liberal) has decided that taxes are good and we should all pay more.

Excerpts from article and quotes:

"We hope our taxes continue to rise in the future -- it will mean we are prospering -- but we also hope that the rest of corporate America antes up along with us,"

"Tax breaks for corporations -- and their investors, particularly large ones -- were a major part of the administration's 2002 and 2003 initiatives," Buffett said. "If class warfare is being waged in America, my class is clearly winning."

Last May, Buffett wrote a Washington Post opinion article criticizing a key element of Bush's tax package -- a cut in tax rates on corporate dividends. Buffet urged that any tax cuts should go to lower-income people or others "who both need and will spend the money gained."

First off let’s get one thing straight – the reason that most of the tax cuts go to the upper income groups is because the top 20% of the wage earners pay 78% of the taxes (Congressional Budget Office Report from this year). If you have a tax cut of course it’s going to mostly go to the wealthy since they pay most of the taxes.

So, It’s been said that Buffett has been fighting for higher taxes, he doesn’t use all the deductions available (yeah right like he does his own taxes – I’ll bet he hasn’t even seen a 1040 in 30 years) and on and on and on.

So here’s the challenge for all our Democrat friends out there: Answer the following without resorting to rhetoric, insults or other nonsensical claptrap. I made it multiple choice to make it easier: (Seriously, I would like an answer)

1: If Buffett and the other limo liberals think they taxes are too low why don’t they set an example and pay more?

A: Because I only support the notion of higher taxes for everyone but me.
B. I forgot where my checkbook is
C: My polo pony ate my checkbook
D: I just like to see my name in the New York Times

2: Why do they have to wait for a law? There’s nothing that says you have to take every deduction.

A: Once the law passes there will be an exemption written in it for me and my kind and everyone’s taxes will go up but mine. This will further enslave the lower classes so that we can dominate the country and dictate our way of life to the little people BWAHAHAHAHAH (evil laugh)
B: If I don’t take every deduction, my company shareholders will sell their stock and I’ll only be able to buy one Bentley next year.
C: If I overpay the boys at the Harvard club will call me a chump
D: I get good press by beating up Republicans, The New York Times doesn’t really expect me to actually do anything.

3: Instead of setting up charities why don’t they give their money to the government and let it decide the best way to spend it?

A: The government might do something I don’t like with it.
B: Being a rich liberal means I should be the government
C: Because in all those rube red states those common folk keep electing the wrong people
D: Us rich folk can decide whets best for our money, it’s only the little people who need guidance

4: (slightly off topic) Why is it that most limo liberals like Buffett and Kennedy are against school vouchers yet they sponsor scholarships (poor people need not apply) to elitist universities for the well heeled?

A; If you go to City College you deserve to wait tables
B: My gardener doesn’t have a degree, if it’s good enough for him……
C: “The world needs ditch diggers too” (credit Judge Smails)
D: It’s really just a plot so we can have a winning football season.

Flame on! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[andyfox]

"the top 20% of the wage earners pay 78% of the taxes"

I assume this refers to the federal income tax only. When all taxes are included, this is not true. And the top 20% earn a much greater portion of their income not in wages, but in other forms of income. Wages, of course, are taxed as they are earned; the upper classes get to shield, hide and defer income which comes in forms other than wages.

I have quoted Warren Buffet here before. But here again are some of his thoughts on taxes:

"Charlie [Munger] and I have absolutely no complaints about these taxes. [He is referring to the $390,000,000 Berkshire Hathaway paid in taxes in 1993.] We work in a market-based economy that rewards our efforts far more bountifully than it does the efforts of others whose output is of equal or greater benefit to society. Taxation should, and does, partially redress this inequality. But we remain extraordinarily well treated."

"If you're a marvelous teacher, this world won't pay a lot for it. If you are a terrific nurse, this world will not pay a lot for it. Now, am I going to try to come up with some comparable worth system that somehow redistributes that? No, I don't think you can do that. But I do think that when you're treated enromously well by this market system, where in effect the market system showers the ability to buy goods and services on you because of some peculiar talent--maybe your adenoids are a certain way, so you can sing and everybody wil pay you enormous sums to be on television or whatever--I think society has a big claim on that."

And here is what Bill Gates Sr. says:

"Individual effort is indispensable to wealth building. But success is not entirely the result of individual brains and effort. Success is a product of having been born in this country, a place where education and research are subsidized, where there is an orderly market, where the private sector reaps enormous benefit from public investment. For someone to assert that he or she has grown wealthy in America without the benefit of substantial public investment is pure hubris."

"What is it worth to opeate within this marvelous system? What's wrong with people who accumulate $20 million or $100 million or $500 million putting a third of that back into the place that made possible the enormous accumulation of wealth for them? What is it worth to be an American?"

[slamdunkpro]

[ QUOTE ]
I assume this refers to the federal income tax only.

[/ QUOTE ]

No - all taxes


[ QUOTE ]
When all taxes are included, this is not true.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK you got me there; when you include things like State and property taxes the top 20% pay 85% of all taxes.

The quotes you listed are great - they make my point. But you didn't answer the question - If these rich guy really feel this way why don't they just kick it in? Why do they need a new law?

[shots]

[ QUOTE ]

the top 20% earn a much greater portion of their income not in wages, but in other forms of income. Wages, of course, are taxed as they are earned; the upper classes get to shield, hide and defer income which comes in forms other than wages.[/qote]

If, as liberals assert the top income earners are using so many loopholes to cheat their way out of paying taxes how come they still pay such a high precentage of the tax. It just doesn't make any sense.

[ptmusic]

Your title and many of your statements in this thread are insulting.

"The left" (in the title) - everyone on the left has a need for more taxes?

"If Buffett and the other limo liberals...." and "these rich guy...." - You are implying that all rich liberals think about this subject the same way. Sean Hannity says the same thing many times every day: "These liberals....".

If you are NOT talking about everyone on the left or every rich liberal, then you shouldn't make these sweeping generalizations.


-ptmusic


p.s. "Answer the following without resorting to rhetoric, insults or other nonsensical claptrap" - this is exactly what you have done in this thread.

[slamdunkpro]

[ QUOTE ]
Your title and many of your statements in this thread are insulting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Durbinesque Apology – If this post offends or insults you, then I’m sorry that you feel that way [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are NOT talking about everyone on the left or every rich liberal, then you shouldn't make these sweeping generalizations.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm NOT talking about all liberals or all rich guys - I'm addressing statements made me specific liberal rich guys. They lumped themselves togther.

But I will quote myself from another post: "when Clinton, Buffet, Gates, Kerry and Kennedy (Republicans too! Busch, Arnold, Limbaugh, Frist and all the rich members of congress) start using the short form, then I will too. Lead by example you cheap bastards! "

[ QUOTE ]
"Answer the following without resorting to rhetoric, insults or other nonsensical claptrap" - this is exactly what you have done in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I didn't answere the questions - and neither have you. All you did was attack me.

I find it interesting that in the other thread where this was brought up, and in this one, not one Democrat has attempted to actually answer the question(s). Instead, I’ve been summarily dismissed, personally attacked, insulted and ignored

So in deference to you I will ask a more targeted question:

If Warren Buffett and Bill Gates Sr. really feel this way why don't they just kick it in? Why do they need a new law?

I await an actual answer.

[ptmusic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your title and many of your statements in this thread are insulting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Durbinesque Apology – If this post offends or insults you, then I’m sorry that you feel that way [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are NOT talking about everyone on the left or every rich liberal, then you shouldn't make these sweeping generalizations.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm NOT talking about all liberals or all rich guys - I'm addressing statements made me specific liberal rich guys. They lumped themselves togther.

But I will quote myself from another post: "when Clinton, Buffet, Gates, Kerry and Kennedy (Republicans too! Busch, Arnold, Limbaugh, Frist and all the rich members of congress) start using the short form, then I will too. Lead by example you cheap bastards! "

[ QUOTE ]
"Answer the following without resorting to rhetoric, insults or other nonsensical claptrap" - this is exactly what you have done in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I didn't answere the questions - and neither have you. All you did was attack me.

I find it interesting that in the other thread where this was brought up, and in this one, not one Democrat has attempted to actually answer the question(s). Instead, I’ve been summarily dismissed, personally attacked, insulted and ignored

So in deference to you I will ask a more targeted question:

If Warren Buffett and Bill Gates Sr. really feel this way why don't they just kick it in? Why do they need a new law?

I await an actual answer.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't trying to answer your questions, and I won't now. My postscript was referring to the rhetoric and insults you made, specifically the generalizations.

You did mention specific people, but in other parts of your posts, you made sweeping generalizations. That's what I was criticizing.

The fact that others make generalizations doesn't make it right.

-ptmusic

[slamdunkpro]

[ QUOTE ]
My postscript was referring to the rhetoric and insults you made, specifically the generalizations.

[/ QUOTE ]

What rhetoric? What insults? The multiple choice answers were meant to be goofy and sarcastic. That’s why I finished with Seriously – I’d like an answer.

[ QUOTE ]
but in other parts of your posts, you made sweeping generalizations. That's what I was criticizing.

[/ QUOTE ]

See above

[ QUOTE ]
The fact that others make generalizations doesn't make it right

[/ QUOTE ]

Then call them on it, don't attack me when I use their words against them.

[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't trying to answer your questions, and I won't now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not? You just made my point from the last post - Attack, insult, dismiss, ignore.

Methinks you’re trying to deflect (another Democrat tactic) this from the questions I asked to “you’re just attacking the left in general”. Sorry – The question still stands for all that dare:

1. If Buffett and the other limo liberals think their taxes are too low why don’t they set an example and pay more?

2. Why do they have to wait for a law? There’s nothing that says you have to take every deduction.

I’ll even throw in another one:

1A If Buffett and the other limo liberals who keep spouting off about this don’t want to kick in more then why don’t they shut the hell up about the rest of us?

We’ll skip 3 and 4 for now since you can’t even answer #1.

[ptmusic]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The fact that others make generalizations doesn't make it right

[/ QUOTE ]

Then call them on it, don't attack me when I use their words against them.


[/ QUOTE ]

I do call "them" (pun intended) on it, and I'm calling you on it too.

Rephrase your questions without generalizations like "the other limo liberals" and I'll do my best to answer them.


-ptmusic

[slamdunkpro]

[ QUOTE ]
Rephrase your questions without generalizations like "the other limo liberals" and I'll do my best to answer them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did, you didn't.

See earlier post.

From the ealier post
[ QUOTE ]
So in deference to you I will ask a more targeted question:

If Warren Buffett and Bill Gates Sr. really feel this way why don't they just kick it in? Why do they need a new law?


[/ QUOTE ]