Ako 5way...A poll...

[Officer Farva]

Did I miss something? Aren't there two players behind us? You think they'll lay down with any signifcant draw or holding if we call? Their pot odds are redic. Fold or go all in, leaning towards the latter.

Tough hand, If I were in it, I'd probably raise all in or fold. I think calling is the worst option you have here. But given then PF action, if I were the one leading into the PF raiser here, my range to donk into you on the flop isn't that great...K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or a set. All of which are strong hands with that flop, and while you are ahead in several of the above mentioned situations (hands) I hate having two players yet to act behind me. If you raise all in, you're going to get called by a hand like straight and flush draws and top pair/flush draw and all sets.....so....I voted fold, with no read, I assume my opponents have half a clue and want me to raise the pot when I am the PF raiser and they lead into me and three others....the guy who leads at this on the flop either has a very strong hand, or he's suicidal with his chips making that kind of a move. Fold or raise all in, I like folding here.

[Officer Farva]

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who said fold? lol!

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Folding: When you raise with AKo, your definitely not wanting 4 callers, so when 4 people call, you should be like "oh sht!" in your head. Now you flop you pair. Hands that beat us: AA, KK, 33, 66. Now two people IN FRONT OF YOU show strength, you still have TWO TO ACT, and you're best hope for a better-than-pair hand is a 5% runner runner.

Ask yourself this question, if three people called 200 in this situation, what would you call with in a later position?

Pushing: In the long run, I got to imagine that pushing is +EV, in the game theoretic sense, especially if you stay at the table or play with these people again. And you got to be favorite a legititmate portion of the time, even with two in front and two to act.

But come on, if this were the only poker sitiuation you were to ever encounter (ie it happened every hand), would you seriously call here? You'd push, or maybe fold and quit poker.

[Murderous]

Personally, I don't like risking the majority of my stack in positions where I am (at best) marginally ahead. TPTK is weeeaaak against this many players and even if it is the best hand BB is likely holding the same hand or better (smells like bottom two).

Against three “in position” I'm more a fan of raising but IMO there are too many players and possibilities to make a big raise – maybe with more info. Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t a major part of the poker profitability equation to “minimize” losses?

The way this hand played out so far and with two to act I'm folding or raising and with what I know about the players, the table in general and hero’s image my first instinct was to fold; wait for a better spot.

-M

[xorbie]

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Personally, I don't like risking the majority of my stack in positions where I am (at best) marginally ahead. TPTK is weeeaaak against this many players and even if it is the best hand BB is likely holding the same hand or better (smells like bottom two).

Against three “in position” I'm more a fan of raising but IMO there are too many players and possibilities to make a big raise – maybe with more info. Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t a major part of the poker profitability equation to “minimize” losses?

The way this hand played out so far and with two to act I'm folding or raising and with what I know about the players, the table in general and hero’s image my first instinct was to fold; wait for a better spot.

-M

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TPTK is pretty decent on this board, because two pair is very unlikely and there is only one real power draw (45[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]). What beats hero here? 33, 66. That's 6 hand combinations. There's already 1k in the pot. I'm pretty happy pushing here given that BB appears to be a donk.

[BobboFitos]

Ok, you're right, my laughing attack at folding wasn't justified, I just consider folding to be least optimal, even though situationally it may have (*ahem*) be correct.

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Folding: When you raise with AKo, your definitely not wanting 4 callers, so when 4 people call, you should be like "oh sht!" in your head. Now you flop you pair. Hands that beat us: AA, KK, 33, 66. Now two people IN FRONT OF YOU show strength, you still have TWO TO ACT, and you're best hope for a better-than-pair hand is a 5% runner runner.

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Yes, I agree, getting 5way action with AK is unexpected. you're also losing k6,k3,63 if you want to add those in there. but...

There are ~25BBs in the pot pf, you "hit your hand," it's not exactly time to look at folding. I'd protect what likely good be good, "gambling" that no one behind me flopped a set.

AA or KK is unlikely simply because they were given a chance to narrow hands pf and just called, which is possible, but unlikely.

I wouldn't be worried about initial bet or cold caller too much; one, the cold caller is redic short stacked, so he likely is a donk w/ 2cards, and if he happens to have better 2 cards, he gets paid off. the initial lead bet is very weak, and looking for a bet/3bet in a 5way pot is probably not going to happen, more likely he'll get calls... I think a set or weird two pair (esp. 63 from the blinds) would lead out bigger.

but maybe not, I think you're ahead of the initial action, so scoot it in, good money out there, if you're unlucky to run into a set, well, thats why there's a rebuy button.

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Ask yourself this question, if three people called 200 in this situation, what would you call with in a later position?

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Turns it into a limit hand, they'd be correct in peeling tons of hands. Really, calling is similar to pushing, just not as good; you still go broke vs better hands, unless you "get away" if a draw hits, and give those draws / worse hands (whichmay dance on the flop) a chance to get away.

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Pushing: In the long run, I got to imagine that pushing is +EV, in the game theoretic sense, especially if you stay at the table or play with these people again. And you got to be favorite a legititmate portion of the time, even with two in front and two to act.

But come on, if this were the only poker sitiuation you were to ever encounter (ie it happened every hand), would you seriously call here? You'd push, or maybe fold and quit poker.

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Umm... I never said I would call. I dont know why you think that. I agree with flawless saying a kamikazee push.

[hit_the_set]

Nobody is talking about the two players left to act. I think I was one of them [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

[xorbie]

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Nobody is talking about the two players left to act. I think I was one of them [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

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What's to talk about? Like I said, the only real concern here is 33 or 66, that's a total of 6 hand combinations ouf of the hundreds you guys would call with.

[tewall]

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if I raise, I can only see myself getting action from a better hand, or maybe a sick draw

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What's wrong with this? If someone has a better hand, you're sunk no matter what. Are you going to call, and then fold later on? That doesn't make sense, does it? So if you assume your sunk if someone already had you beat, then raising is better than calling because you're protecting your hand. Your hand isn't good enough to be worried about getting action. Your plenty happy to take down the pot right now.

[sawseech]

oh mp3 and button are still out there
duh
raise or fold
calling gets you squeezed