Is this too aggro or good thinkin?

chopper77 · #1 06-13-2005, 07:11 PM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero caps, MP1 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (17 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 bets, Button raises, SB folds, Hero ????

Button is a huge maniac, playing 90% of hands and coming in for a raise 50% of the time. He's raising damn near every flop. MP1 is your prototypical loose passive- he's probably not betting out here without an A or a K.

I 3-bet here because the pot was really big and I thought if I made it 2 back to MP1 I could get him to fold a weak ace or a king. Button could have any 2 cards and I'd like to get it heads up with him. If the guy caps, I guess check/fold? If he just calls do you lead out the turn or is this spew territory?

I might be making this a lot harder than it needs to be, and I appreciate the help.

AlmightyJay · #2 06-13-2005, 07:20 PM

I would bet out on this flop. If MP1 raises you, bail.

jba · #3 06-13-2005, 07:25 PM

I think this is probably spewing bro.

even if MP folds, what's your plan with the rest of the hand? you're almost certainly going to have to pay 2BBs to get to showdown considering you are OOP, quick math is you're paying 7 (sb) to win 25 (assuming MP1 folds -- if not you are toast), which means you need to win this pot about 21% of the time. not sure that's going to happen!

@bsolute_luck · #4 06-13-2005, 09:33 PM

i wouldn't have 3-bet. your read on MP1 is loose passive and he cold called preflop- do you think he's the type to really care about how many bets are back to him? doubtful.

i'm still wondering about betting out- i don't see it really accomplishing anything. i don't think i would, but i'm definitely seeing the turn because of our 2 backdoor draws and Button is maniac, so his bet is suspect and MP1 being a loose passive probably won't 3-bet.

ClaytonN · #5 06-13-2005, 09:37 PM

check/fold button

@bsolute_luck · #6 06-13-2005, 09:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
check/fold button

[/ QUOTE ]

????

chopper77 · #7 06-13-2005, 10:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
even if MP folds, what's your plan with the rest of the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

If MP folds it's easy- check/call, check/call. I probably have the maniac beat, he's impossible to read since he plays like a jackass with any two (he's a raising machine, plays almost every hand and doesn't fold... he capped a board of something like K5J rainbow with 33.)

ClaytonN · #8 06-13-2005, 10:12 PM

Hah, okay I'lll oblige and go further with my comment.

There is no way I am betting QQ into an AKx flop when it was capped preflop, because I'm sorry guys but it's gonna get raised up.

Implied odds *might* make it worth a call if you're getting approx. 20:1 on your money when it gets back to you, but when it gets bet and raised back into you, your QQ may as well be 74o.

And anyone who says the OP should fire out a flop bet here is just crazily mistaken. Come on guys, this is spewing.

chopper77 · #9 06-13-2005, 10:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i wouldn't have 3-bet. your read on MP1 is loose passive and he cold called preflop- do you think he's the type to really care about how many bets are back to him? doubtful.

i'm still wondering about betting out- i don't see it really accomplishing anything. i don't think i would, but i'm definitely seeing the turn because of our 2 backdoor draws and Button is maniac, so his bet is suspect and MP1
being a loose passive probably won't 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that you're pretty spot-on here. MP1 won't fold to my raise so it's pointless, but since he won't 3 bet I've got the odds to peel one off.

badbill7 · #10 06-13-2005, 10:17 PM

clayton hit it on head, maybey if just heads up with maniac i stay in but not with anyone else in hand. even heads up with maniac you have to figure your behind. give me seven more callers and im goin for the elusive quads but otherwise peace out