Curtains: KQo UTG 5-handed

45suited · #1 12-26-2005, 01:19 AM

Blinds go up in 2 hands. Any thoughts of pushing this?

PartyPoker, Big Blind is t150 (5 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

Hero (t1545)
CO (t1850)
Button (t1260)
SB (t1210)
BB (t4135)

Preflop: Hero is in UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds

kyro · #2 12-26-2005, 01:23 AM

I wouldn't. Especially if I'm not too fond of BB's play and think he'll call me with a bunch of Aces.

Dr_Jeckyl_00 · #3 12-26-2005, 01:28 AM

Currently I tend to fold KQ from UTG when I am in good shape (chip wise) and push if I am in trouble. Trouble would be about 5-7xbb or less

#4 12-26-2005, 01:34 AM

Thanks for posting this. This has been a question for me at times. Today I had a similar situation. KQ UTG, down to 5. Stacks were more even however, I had around 1600 the others between 1400 and 800. I pushed. I was called by the SB and figured I was toast. SB had KJ. Flopped top 2 pair and won. In hindsight I probably should have folded even though it worked out.

45suited · #5 12-26-2005, 01:40 AM

I would 'probably' fold here as well. I'm guessing that it's a slightly negative EV push.

However, sometimes I'll make a slightly (very close, mind you) push in a spot like this if I think that a bigstack is very active and I won't get a chance anytime soon. Also, I don't really think I'd mind getting into a coinflip with 88 or whatever because of the huge benefit of doubling up and separating myself from the pack. I'm not claiming that my idea is correct, but it's something that I've been toying with.

Obviously, AK and AQ are the 300 pound gorillas that we're afraid of.

curtains · #6 12-26-2005, 01:48 AM

You mind greatly getting into a coin flip with 88, this isnt even close. Cmon its 5 handed with four equalish stacks on the bubble. The wrong end coin flip is huge -EV. You are trying to claw your way into at least 3rd place here, not trying to search out ways to get into confrontations to seperate yourself from the pack. I think allin here is almost surely terrible and signifigantly -EV.

45suited · #7 12-26-2005, 01:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]

You mind greatly getting into a coin flip with 88, this isnt even close. Cmon its 5 handed with four equalish stacks on the bubble. The wrong end coin flip is huge -EV. You are trying to claw your way into at least 3rd place here, not trying to search out ways to get into confrontations to seperate yourself from the pack. I think allin here is almost surely terrible and signifigantly -EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

I should say, yes I MIND a coinflip, but I also have FE. Because the stacks are so equal, how many mid-pairs will actually call here? Will 77 or below call me (other than the bigstack of course)? I'm not saying that they won't, I'm just wondering. What if the blinds were 100-200? Would you push this then?

curtains · #8 12-26-2005, 01:53 AM

I think its a fold even with 100-200 blinds. These situations are weird and you are supposed to play pretty damned tight in them.

Dr_Jeckyl_00 · #9 12-26-2005, 01:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think its a fold even with 100-200 blinds. These situations are weird and you are supposed to play pretty damned tight in them.

[/ QUOTE ]

what if you only have around 5xbb left? ok to push then?

curtains · #10 12-26-2005, 01:58 AM

btw Im going to post this for the last time. I find it incredible how many people post their "opinions" on plays like this without using SNGPT. If you continue to do so and approach your own games like this, you basically have no chance to be a good sit and go player.

I don't know what to do because Im smarter than everyone else, I know what to do because I actually put in the work in spots where the work is very simple. I sense that the large majority of 2+2 is very lazy and just wants to play a ton of sit and gos without ever actually learning what to do. SNGPT basically tells you exactly the right play in a case like this, and will tell you just how terrible pushing is. You don't need me to post my opinion to know what is right or wrong. There is no "feeling" or "intuition" that is going to tell you the right answer here. For everyone that thinks this is a hard situation, buy SNGPT already and use it. Play less, study your games more.

When there are 5 players left and the blinds are like 1/10th of your stack and the chip counts are similar to this, you will learn after a bit of tinkering that you must be extremely tight, especially UTG. Same goes for 4 handed as well, but is even more exagerated.