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  #1  
Old 12-07-2005, 05:24 PM
Sponger15SB Sponger15SB is offline
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Default $25 PLO Hi, bottom set + top two

Trying to learn this stupid game. I'm at least happy that I'm winning for how bad I play, 16.7bb/100 over my first 3000 hands (+$250).

I've got $22.80 with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and Villian has me covered and I don't have any reads.

Villian calls UTG, UTG+1 raises to $1, super mini stack with 70 cents goes all in, 1 caller, 1 fold, Hero calls, call behind me, 2 folds, Villian calls.

About $5 in the pot for the flop of 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Villian checks, UTG+1 bets $2, 1 fold, Hero calls, other fold, then Villian c/r pot to $13.75, UTG+1 folds and its up to me.

Should I be calling/pushing because I have the Q/J and its unlikely that he has QQ or JJ and he might have a straight or flush draw?
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  #2  
Old 12-07-2005, 05:27 PM
TheRempel TheRempel is offline
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Default Re: $25 PLO Hi, bottom set + top two

Most players in the $25 games aren't sophisticated enough to cr with a drawing hand. He has QQ or JJ. Lay it down.
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  #3  
Old 12-07-2005, 05:29 PM
Sponger15SB Sponger15SB is offline
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Default Re: $25 PLO Hi, bottom set + top two

[ QUOTE ]
sophisticated enough to cr with a drawing hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh? So only sophisticated players do this?

I have started to notice that I can also bluff tight players in this game. Is this the kind of thing you're talking about?
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  #4  
Old 12-07-2005, 05:33 PM
TheRempel TheRempel is offline
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Default Re: $25 PLO Hi, bottom set + top two

[ QUOTE ]
huh? So only sophisticated players do this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Most players in the $25 games on party are fairly straightforward. You'll see some rampant slowplay now and then, but for the most part, they bet it if they have it and check-call if they are drawing. Giving that he checkraised here after the PFR bet out and you called, it is much more likely that he has a real hand and not a draw. With no reads, I would fold. If I knew he'd do this with a pair and a straight draw, an OE straight draw, etc, etc, I'd push most of the time.
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  #5  
Old 12-08-2005, 01:56 PM
LearnedfromTV LearnedfromTV is offline
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Default Re: $25 PLO Hi, bottom set + top two

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
huh? So only sophisticated players do this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Most players in the $25 games on party are fairly straightforward. You'll see some rampant slowplay now and then, but for the most part, they bet it if they have it and check-call if they are drawing. Giving that he checkraised here after the PFR bet out and you called, it is much more likely that he has a real hand and not a draw. With no reads, I would fold. If I knew he'd do this with a pair and a straight draw, an OE straight draw, etc, etc, I'd push most of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if it has to be a made hand:

This checkraise is never QJ? Or, much less likely, Q5/J5.

Or a QJ/straight or flush draw combo?

A lot of people will checkraise a preflop raise and a call with anything that beats AA, because "preflop raises always have AA"

With this stack size I get it in every time on this flop.

Edit: Worth mentioning that your blockers make it less likely you are in set over set, but it does decrease your equity versus draws because your have your own redraw. Especially vs. QJT9 w/ diamonds, or something similar, you are in some trouble. I still think it's a close push versus his range.
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  #6  
Old 12-08-2005, 06:24 PM
TheRempel TheRempel is offline
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Default Re: $25 PLO Hi, bottom set + top two

I'm not saying it's never QJ or Q5, but both of those hands are occuring about as often as QQ or JJ here. He's a small dog to a fifteen out draw since two of his pair cards are dead. All in all he is either a 2:1 favorite maybe 25% of the time, a 11:9 dog another 40% of the time (all percentages are approximated) or drawing to a one or three outer for the remaining 25%.

[ QUOTE ]
I still think it's a close push versus his range.

[/ QUOTE ]

He has no reads, we have no idea what this guy's range is. If we could find a range here that includes his pushing with QJ, J5 or Q5 then it would be close.
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