what exactly is this "deck roll" i'm hearing so much about?

[Randy_Refeld]

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I would be more inclined to trust someone in a home game than a stranger in a casino.

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You shouldn't be.

scrub

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You would never play poker again if you saw some of the card tricks I have seen dealers do in downtime. If I invite people to my house to play poker they aren't the sort that are going to steal from me. The reason casinos have very strict procedures is to protect the players, when these procedures are no longer followed you are no longer protected in the casino.

[Randy_Refeld]

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I'm still a tad confused... holding the deck upside down?! So the bottom card is showing and you are dealing offthe bottom (formely the top) of the deck? It just seems stupid. Wouldn;t worry about this being used as a cheating technique anywhere, all people will know is that 1 card (the bottom card) won't get dealt, not a big enough gap in info to take your money unless they alreayd waaay outplay you.

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It is hard to describe, but if I was there I could show you how the dealer can tae a peak at the cards coming off the top of the deck while it is upside down. There are many bad things that can happen to a player when the dealer rolls the deck. I was in Las Vegas for about a week, and every room I went to was vulnerable to both having a mechanic deal and having money stolen directly from the pot. In today's poker environment the players are not protected.

I have sat in the 1 seat and clearly seen cards at the top of the deck from a dealer who rolled the deck. She did not roll it completely over just at an angle. (actually it was in Photoc's room).

[Percula]

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I'm still a tad confused... holding the deck upside down?! So the bottom card is showing and you are dealing offthe bottom (formely the top) of the deck? It just seems stupid. Wouldn;t worry about this being used as a cheating technique anywhere, all people will know is that 1 card (the bottom card) won't get dealt, not a big enough gap in info to take your money unless they alreayd waaay outplay you.

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Nope, you are not getting it. Let me try to be more discriptive.

Most dealers (all in a casino) will use a "cut card", which is not a card at all but a piece of plastic that is exactly the same size as a playing card. When the deck is cut the cut card ends up on the bottom so the bottom card is not exposed. We are not talking about exposing or dealing from the bottom of the deck.

Most dealers will hold the deck in their left hand. So when they need to pull in bets and discards from the left side of the table they need to use their left hand unless they have ape arms. Many will roll the deck while doing this and Randy has already explained why this is a problem. Many will also roll the deck when they are not doing anything or anything that requires their deck hand.

[Percula]

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I would be more inclined to trust someone in a home game than a stranger in a casino.

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You shouldn't be.

scrub

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You would never play poker again if you saw some of the card tricks I have seen dealers do in downtime. If I invite people to my house to play poker they aren't the sort that are going to steal from me. The reason casinos have very strict procedures is to protect the players, when these procedures are no longer followed you are no longer protected in the casino.

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While I agree with you Randy, I think you are misunderstanding what many are refering to as a "home game".

You have to keep in mind that many people are playing in games not played in a casino and many are not games that your buddy at work decided to hold Friday night for kicks, but are regularly running games with dedicated dealers, etc, basically a one table card room.

In many locations their is no easy access to a casino or to games that people want to play. For example in AZ we do not have NL poker games do to state law. As a result there are several regularly running "home" games that do have NL poker. Some are small and more or less like your typical friends game at someone's house, others are full setups with shufflemasters, dedicated dealers and lots of money. Remember AZ was known for it's big games before the law changed and those did not just die because the law changed.

This presents a real problem for many "home game" players. With the amounts of money that some of these games draw, they also draw that element that is there to steal players money. At least in a casino there are camara's, security staff, floor staff, etc, etc. In a home game the only one looking out for your interests is you. Now just think if some of those dealers you have seen in their off time doing magic with the deck decided to start working at one of these home games and wanted to take players money...

[Randy_Refeld]

I have run this kind of game, but I wouldn't really think of it as a home game. We were certain the deck was not rolled etc. I would say in the mid-late 90s we were more selective in hiring dealers than casinos are today. In these sorts of games when the deck is rolled it is most likely that the dealer is lazy or doesn't know any better. There is no real excuse for rolling the deck, I could spend 10 minutes with a delaer and teach tehm to never roll the deck again (if they were interested in improving). Over the years I have talked to quite a few people in poker management, some are adament about dealers following procedures, but some are unaware of why certain procedures exist.

[albedoa]

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Most dealers will hold the deck in their left hand. So when they need to pull in bets and discards from the left side of the table they need to use their left hand unless they have ape arms. Many will roll the deck while doing this and Randy has already explained why this is a problem.

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Hi! I've read this whole thread and am still unsure if I know what a deck roll is [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I understood you up until this point (and thank you for taking the time to describe it). Are you saying that the dealer keeps the deck in his left hand when he is pulling in bets and discards? If so, then I understand you. However, I'm still not sure how cards get exposed when that happens.

[Randy_Refeld]

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However, I'm still not sure how cards get exposed when that happens.

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While the deck is tipped he can slide the top cards off and peek at them. Also this can occur by accident if his grip slips. If the deck is level there is nothing to see even if the top cards slides a little.

[Photoc]

FOr those who don't understand it. Try this.

Take a deck of cards, hold it in your left or right hand with the deck parallel to the table. Now "roll" your hand like you are turning a door knob.

[bigfishead]

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I have heard (from more than 1 reliable source) that post has gotten around some management types at various rooms here in town.

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Like who? Ballys? where the poker management has never even worked in poker before? I do know some management people who have never even worked in poker before frequent but never post here.

LOL...heres a funny one...there will be a shift supervisor in a room in town who has never worked poker also...but will be taking care of things as soon as they are finished with dealing school!!

GAWD LV Casino managements suck. NO CLUE.