What is the weakest pair you come over the top with here?

LearnedfromTV · #1 11-09-2005, 01:47 AM

Edit: 50+4, 200+ runners, 60 left, 30 pay, the top 5 at this table are all like top 15.

Villain #2 likes to see flops, usually limps and steals a bit when no one is interested. He's raised normal a couple times, first time I've seen minraise. Villain #2 is pretty new to table, no read, maybe haven't even see him play a hand. Not sure.

Seat 1: Button ($3,490 in chips)
Seat 2: SB ($7,197 in chips)
Seat 3: BB ($7,225 in chips)
Seat 4: UTG ($5,374 in chips)
Seat 5: UTG+1 ($2,425 in chips)
Seat 6: UTG+2 ($8,090 in chips)
Seat 7: MP1 ($4,440 in chips)
Seat 8: MP2 Villain #1 ($14,790 in chips)
Seat 9: MP3 Villian #2 ($2,033 in chips)
Seat 10: Hero [8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] ($11,607 in chips)

ANTES/BLINDS
SB posts blind ($150), BB posts blind ($300).

PRE-FLOP
folds to Villain #1, who minraises to $600, Villain #2 raises to $2,033 and is all-in,

Hero?

beenben · #2 11-09-2005, 02:18 AM

I don't think you want to tangle with the other big stack without KK or AA. Maybe QQ. probably not JJ. TT or below I'm folding for sure.

aaronbeen · #3 11-09-2005, 02:35 AM

In my experience first villain is either weak or very rarely has AA/KK. Second villain is just trying to get his money in, not much to worry about. Some important info would be how frequently villain will fold when you re-isolate. Without that info I'm still probably coming over the top with AA-1010 and AK-AQ. If you know he can't fold I might cut it down to AA-JJ and AK. If he folds easily 99 and possibly even AJs might be making the cut.

Most posters will advocate a much tighter range but in my opinion this is a great time to pick up chips. Villain one is likely to give you credit and get out of the way leaving you with lots of overlay against a shortstacked opponent who was getting desperate and could have a wide range. The fact that you and villain 1 are both well above average is a strong reason FOR making a play here.

Wow my first post here that has made me wish my pokerstars and 2+2 handles were different.

LearnedfromTV · #4 11-09-2005, 02:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Most posters will advocate a much tighter range but in my opinion this is a great time to pick up chips. Villain one is likely to give you credit and get out of the way leaving you with lots of overlay against a shortstacked opponent who was getting desperate and could have a wide range. The fact that you and villain 1 are both well above average is a strong reason FOR making a play here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this sentiment, which is part of my problem here holding 88. I love this situation but am worried that the hand is just a little too weak. And yet how often will opponents have hands that make 88 any different from TT?

Good post.

dogsballs · #5 11-09-2005, 02:43 AM

You asking me..?! With 11k chips any pair. Play for first!!
The min raise would make me suspicious though...so I'd adjust purely depending on that read. If oyu don't like it, just throw it away...it's only a pair of eights.

aaronbeen · #6 11-09-2005, 02:50 AM

I wouldn't have a problem with 88 here. They are different vs Villain 2's range but of course 1010-88 is not many combinations. It depends on his range but it will almost always be a 10% or smaller difference.
Actually both seem to be in good shape.
equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 43.5748 % [ 00.43 00.01 ] { AA-66, AKs-A9s, KQs, AKo-A9o, KQo }
Hand 2: 56.4252 % [ 00.56 00.01 ] { TT }

---

1,489,704,480 games 1.828 secs 814,936,805 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 52.0135 % [ 00.51 00.01 ] { AA-66, AKs-A9s, KQs, AKo-A9o, KQo }
Hand 2: 47.9865 % [ 00.47 00.01 ] { 88 }

This range is a pretty rough approximation.

LearnedfromTV · #7 11-09-2005, 03:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't have a problem with 88 here. They are different vs Villain 2's range but of course 1010-88 is not many combinations. It depends on his range but it will almost always be a 10% or smaller difference.
Actually both seem to be in good shape.
equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 43.5748 % [ 00.43 00.01 ] { AA-66, AKs-A9s, KQs, AKo-A9o, KQo }
Hand 2: 56.4252 % [ 00.56 00.01 ] { TT }

---

1,489,704,480 games 1.828 secs 814,936,805 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 52.0135 % [ 00.51 00.01 ] { AA-66, AKs-A9s, KQs, AKo-A9o, KQo }
Hand 2: 47.9865 % [ 00.47 00.01 ] { 88 }

This range is a pretty rough approximation.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is about what I expected. I think the stack sizes make it kind of weird though, because, what does I raise to? Allin seems like too much, anything less and I have to deal with Villain #1 flat-calling some of the time. I guess that is the difference is my mind between TT and 88 - the flop is good more often, but a lot of those times you think it's good it isn't, at least when the money goes in.

LearnedfromTV · #8 11-09-2005, 03:16 AM

I folded, they both showed AQ, board blanked

I'm going to hide my rant here, because no one wants to hear it but I'm effing pissed right now and my girlfriend told me to shut up so listen up anyway.

I finished 11th in this because an idiot called off all his chips to my reraise allin with 87 with about fifteen left and spiked an 8. Went from 26K to 12K and eventually lost a coin flip for a 30K pot on the effing river when big stack spiked another g-d 8 to beat my 55. Should be cruising with a big stack right now. F I hate poker sometimes. Well, at least I hate 8's.

Endrant. Time for bed.

dogsballs · #9 11-09-2005, 03:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I folded, they both showed AQ, board blanked

I'm going to hide my rant here, because no one wants to hear it but I'm effing pissed right now and my girlfriend told me to shut up so listen up anyway.

I finished 11th in this because an idiot called off all his chips to my reraise allin with 87 with about fifteen left and spiked an 8. Went from 26K to 12K and eventually lost a coin flip for a 30K pot on the effing river when big stack spiked another g-d 8 to beat my 55. Should be cruising with a big stack right now. F I hate poker sometimes. Well, at least I hate 8's.

Endrant. Time for bed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn. You must be new. I go through this about 6 times a day at crucial times in tournaments.

Try Prima poker. They're good for that; I reckon the players there actively try to put a beat on you - if you show 'em AK, they'll pay everything to call with KJ, just to try and do it to ya'.

Just remember: the sheer number of those attempts will get you most times. It's that one payoff when they all - or almost all - fail that makes the others worthwhile.

LearnedfromTV · #10 11-09-2005, 03:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Damn. You must be new. I go through this about 6 times a day at crucial times in tournaments.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah. Been there, done that. Still makes me want to put a fist through something for about five minutes. Then I look at the list I made of suckouts I had in big cashes. It helps.

Edit: I suppose I should actually go to bed now. Thanks for the thoughts on the hand boys, sorry to hijack my own thread.