AA: SSHE pg. 163

Aviston · #1 09-20-2005, 07:32 PM

Interesting hand to say the least.

Party Poker 2.00/4.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (18.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG raises, UTG+2 3-bets, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero ...?

Should I cap this for value here? Or is this much like the KK hand on page 163 of SSHE? By capping, I'll be giving BB a little over 10:1 on his call and UTG 15:1. If, however, I wait until the turn to raise (assuming UTG+2 bets the turn) I would cut down those odds to around 8:1.

On a side note, I'm not even sure my hand is currently best considering I got check-raised by not one but two players on my flop bet. How about that MP1 calling 3 bets cold like it's his job?

TheHip41 · #2 09-20-2005, 07:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting hand to say the least.

Party Poker 2.00/4.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (18.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG raises, UTG+2 3-bets, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero ...?

Should I cap this for value here? Or is this much like the KK hand on page 163 of SSHE? By capping, I'll be giving BB a little over 10:1 on his call and UTG 15:1. If, however, I wait until the turn to raise (assuming UTG+2 bets the turn) I would cut down those odds to around 8:1.

On a side note, I'm not even sure my hand is currently best considering I got check-raised by not one but two players on my flop bet. How about that MP1 calling 3 bets cold like it's his job?

[/ QUOTE ]

I played this same hand today. Had AA, I raise, got 3 bet behind me, I capped.

Flop 952 rainbow, I bet, get raised, some dude c/r both of us, I cap, 3 to the turn

9952 I bet, they call

river

99542

I bet, they call

I 'see' KK and JJ, thanks PA HUD [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I cap and go from there. If you hit any resistance on the turn, it's time to slow down.

Aviston · #3 09-20-2005, 07:40 PM

Well, I posted my hand-being-best-musings as a side note. What I'm really asking here is if it is better to cap this flop for value, or if there is more value in waiting to raise the turn to protect my hand.

TheHip41 · #4 09-20-2005, 07:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I posted my hand-being-best-musings as a side note. What I'm really asking here is if it is better to cap this flop for value, or if there is more value in waiting to raise the turn to protect my hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't protect your hand from much at this point. MP guy cold calling 3 isn't going to fold to a bet and a raise, everyone else is putting money in this pot freely.

I'd cap to try and take control of the hand. If I cap the flop and the turn is a brick, and it's bet and raised to me, I can safely fold then. Also, if a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] hits the turn, do you really want to raise at that point?

Aviston · #5 09-20-2005, 07:48 PM

Well, I was more of thinking that if a brick hit then I'd raise the turn. It's not about trying to get players to fold, it's about giving them incorrect odds on their call. By waiting until the turn I can give many draws (including gutshots, etc) incorrect odds. Their mistakes are +EV for me.

TheHip41 · #6 09-20-2005, 07:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I was more of thinking that if a brick hit then I'd raise the turn. It's not about trying to get players to fold, it's about giving them incorrect odds on their call. By waiting until the turn I can give many draws (including gutshots, etc) incorrect odds. Their mistakes are +EV for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think even this will happen. When you call 2 more, and the BB calls 2 more, this is a 32SB pot.

16BB to the turn. Say it goes bet, you raise,

Now there's 19BB, ppl have to call 2BB. 9.5-1

I just don't think you can protect this hand anymore, it's all about value.

#7 09-20-2005, 11:20 PM

I have also read this section of SSHE very carefully. I think you are right, that you cannot protect your hand on the flop, but with a check raise on the turn. But are the players with a gutshot really wrong to call to 1/9.5 or will they calculate their implied odds high enough to call?

Aviston · #8 09-21-2005, 12:01 AM

As I stated earlier, I really don't think I have a chance to fold anyone out of this hand. However, giving them incorrect immediate pot odds seems better than giving them odds to call with pretty much anything. I'm really unsure as to whether giving up a value cap on the flop is worth it in this situation.

TheHip41 · #9 09-21-2005, 02:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
As I stated earlier, I really don't think I have a chance to fold anyone out of this hand. However, giving them incorrect immediate pot odds seems better than giving them odds to call with pretty much anything. I'm really unsure as to whether giving up a value cap on the flop is worth it in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they are going to call with a gutshot getting 10.5-1, they will call getting 9.5-1. Do you know why?

Because they will look at the pot that says $14999999 and say, all I need is a X and I win all that. They will call.

That being said, I'd just go ahead and cap, and get as much as you can now. The turn might get bet and raised without your help anyway.

Aviston · #10 09-21-2005, 02:14 AM

I would post the rest of the hand, because it's absolute comedy, but I feel I've been ridiculed enough for one day on this forum.

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