Flopped Nuts, Folded Turn, Bad Laydown? - Page 3

baronzeus · #21 08-08-2005, 12:06 AM

This is not a horrible laydown.

bjarne · #22 08-08-2005, 03:41 AM

I'd call the the turn reraise every time here. The river card is pretty scary though and I'd most likely check/fold here unless there's five J:s in the deck [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. But the action on the flop and turn could be that opponents hold AK,AQ, JT, Q9s, TT.

_Kevin_ · #23 08-08-2005, 08:41 AM

Let me try to give part of my thinking (which was asked for). A lot of my decisions were influenced by my read of both being passive players. I checked the flop because these were both passive players. I didn't have a lot of hands with them but I was afraid they may just call a bet rather than raise. Clearly I was wrong here, they would have raised. I did gain some information though with the line I took, MP2 did not cap the flop but MP3 did. To me, this said MP3 has either a set, the straight or possibly 2 pair (remember he's a passive player and I don't think he would cap with less). On the turn, I was worried because MP2 comes alive again after not capping the flop. To me this says the K hit him. Now, it doesn't necessarily mean he's got a full boat but it worries me based on how the hand has been played. I was really thinking I had a split at best and was possibly already drawing dead. Even if I'm ahead, there are a lot of redraws. I was also concerned by the way the hand was played, it might be capped on the turn and river and that seemed to make it a -EV call.

PJM1206 · #24 08-08-2005, 09:18 AM

After having the luxury of looking at this for about 10 minutes and reading all the post. I would agree that calling the turn may have been the best play. I would have then checked the river and called one bet ouch, hate that but......... I do like your fold though. I think a passive opponent would only bet and raise like that with strong hands and cap with the nuts (A high str8 ont the turn). What I liked about your fold was that you made an assessment that you were behind, stuck with it and made the hard choice --- good on you. I think you probaly would have ended up loosing to the boat from MP2.

MrEngenic · #25 08-08-2005, 09:41 AM

Dont check the flop.

On the flop there is a bet, a raise, a check raise 3-bet and a cap.

Then another K comes on the turn. The limp reraiser bets, and then there is a raise and a 3-bet. Someone has to have a full house here IMO and it will probably be very expensive to see this showdown given all the action. Bailing out now is not unreasonable.

They don't have to be maniacs to call down though, just a bit stupid. They could be overplaying AA,AK, TJ but I don't think both are.

MP3 had AQ and MP2 a AK?

crownjules · #26 08-08-2005, 09:53 AM

With MP3 raising PF and capping after your C/R, you have to figure he's got KK/JJ/TT or an overplayed AA. In any case, you're ahead of whatever they have.

Turn is bad. You're probably drawing dead to MP3 unless he is overplaying AA, and it doesn't look like that's the case when he 3-bets. I would bet (giving a little thought to checking) and definitely fold when it's two back to me.

_Kevin_ · #27 08-08-2005, 07:28 PM

I appreciate everyone's comments. They have given me some things to think about. The results are below for the curious among us.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, 3 folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls, MP3 caps, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, MP3 3-bets, Hero folds, MP2 calls.

River: (16.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 18.25 BB

Results in white below: 
MP2 has Kh 9s (full house, kings full of tens).
MP3 has Qd Ah (straight, ace high).
Outcome: MP2 wins 18.25 BB.

silkyslim · #28 08-08-2005, 08:22 PM

I would have called or capped on the turn, you could be up against 3 kings often. and probably folded the river. that sounds bad but i cant think of any combination of hands that we beat from these 2. This is not a terrible turn fold though, your reasoning is sound