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Old 07-01-2005, 01:42 AM
teamdonkey teamdonkey is offline
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Default ToP - The Ante Structure - antes drive the action?

In Theory of Poker chapter 4, Sklansky talks about how the ante structure affects how you should play (loose vs tight). His summary:

"if you don't struggle properly for the antes, you cost yourself money one way or the other - either by playing too many hands when there's a small ante or too few when there's a large ante."

I play NL ring games. Playing more tightly when antes (blinds) are small seems counterintuitive to me. For example, let's say i'm UTG 9 handed and get 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. If the average stack is 50BB (antes relatively large) i'm folding this. If stacks are 300BB (antes relatively small) i may call.

To me this makes sense, the higher implied odds that come with deep stacks makes this marginal hand in poor position more desirable. Obviously for me the stack sizes drive my starting requirements, not the antes.

Is this an error in my thinking, or does Sklansky's advice here apply mostly to limit games?
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Old 07-01-2005, 10:17 AM
Rode_Dog Rode_Dog is offline
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Default Re: ToP - The Ante Structure - antes drive the action?

I'm clearly not an expert, but...

What Sklansky is suggesting is that the higher the blinds, in comparison to stack size or buy-in the more valuable they are. Because they represent a larger percentage of your stack, the pay-out if you make your hand is greater. You are, therefore, incented to play more hands. This is not partucularly different than using pot odds to continue with drawing hands.

This is most common in tournaments where the blinds increase. One would play tight early and become looser as the blinds rise. Another example would be a $100 buy-in game with $10/$20 blinds. If you play tight, you can only see a few orbits before you get blinded out, so if you are to have any chance to win money, you need to lower your starting hand requirements. If you (not the table) can build your stack up to $1000, then you might be inclined to play much more tightly. The blinds (antes) are a smaller % of you stack and you can therefore wait for good hands.

As for large stacks having larger implied odds, I disagree. If you have an agressive player ahead of you who is likely to raise, you might use reverse implied odds to fold a hand you might have otherwise called or bet. IMO, The big stack has nothing to do with your implied odds here, your read on the player does.

Similarly, If you are convinced that all of the players to come will call your bets if you make your hand, you might use implied odds to call a hand that would otherwise not have correct odds to continue.
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Old 07-01-2005, 10:36 AM
SNOWBALL138 SNOWBALL138 is offline
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Default Re: ToP - The Ante Structure - antes drive the action?

Antes go in before you see your cards and are not live, therefore a large ante (relative to your stack) increases the amount of money in the pot, without increasing the amount of money that you have to call to get into the pot, viz., your pot odds are improved.
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Old 07-01-2005, 12:38 PM
pzhon pzhon is offline
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Default Re: ToP - The Ante Structure - antes drive the action?

[ QUOTE ]
I play NL ring games. Playing more tightly when antes (blinds) are small seems counterintuitive to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
You are confusing a couple of things.

Suppose there are two stud games available. In one, the ante is $0.10 (ignore the bring-in). In the other, the ante is $10. Should you be very tight in the game with the smaller ante? No, the first game is probably $0.50-$1 while the second is $50-$100. You need to compare the bet sizes with the amount of dead money in the pot. When the bets are much larger than the amount of dead money, you need more strength to bet, and you need more strength to call. When the bets are smaller in relation to the amount of dead money, bets represent less strength, and you don't need as strong of a hand to call.

This is not closely related to the implied odds issues that tell you that while you can profitably play ATo UTG but not 75s when short-stacked, the reverse may be true with deep stacks.

The idea of playing more loosely when there is more dead money in the pot applies to NL in many ways, but you can also adjust the size of your raises based on the amount of dead money. If someone posts UTG and then disconnects and folds, you should be more inclined to limp or complete rather than fold with a marginal hand, but the natural raise also increases in size. The same is true if a loose player limps in front of you, or a player who raises with anything decent represents weakness by limping. These add dead money to the pot.

Stack sizes matter because they change the effective size of bets. If someone open-raises to 5 BB, all-in, this is a smaller bet than if someone raises to 5 BB, but has 2 BB more that may go in on any flop. The relationship between the nominal size of the raise and the effective size of the raise is complicated and is described in the book by Reuben and Ciaffone.
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