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  #11  
Old 04-24-2005, 02:38 AM
Aaron W. Aaron W. is offline
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Default Re: Keeping fishies around

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So its limped to me in MP1 with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Normally I auto-raise this but I decided to limp. Additionally, I was pretty much feared by almost everyone at the table and a lot of my raises were making everyone go away.

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You might look to raise more often and play a few more marginal hands to break that image (don't get stupid about it, but do get a little looser). Take advantage of the image you have, and when they start to adjust (if they ever do), go back to your tighter style.

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And my dreams are shattered as the board pairs. However, a player who had folded immediately threw his arms up in disgust at the sight of the river. This made me pretty certain nobody had a FH since he obviously folded one.

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You should broaden your thoughts on your hand reading. He might have folded a seven, but it's not clear that he folded a hand that would have rivered a full house. This is especially true if he was the one who folded on the turn.

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I realize my play was not standard and I likely cost myself anywhere from 4-7 BB's by not raising.

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Read that to yourself out loud a couple times, and then answer your own question:

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My question is: is there any validity to this plan of action?

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  #12  
Old 04-24-2005, 04:22 AM
Russ McGinley Russ McGinley is offline
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Default Re: Keeping fishies around

Thanks to everyone who tried to look like geniuses and reply with "OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU DIDN'T RAISE OMG OMG OMG". I thought I said enough times that i tried a different play than normal for one hand and that it didn't work the way I wanted it, but I guess I figured I had to deal with morons who have to try and make themselves look smarter than they are.

[ QUOTE ]
You should broaden your thoughts on your hand reading. He might have folded a seven, but it's not clear that he folded a hand that would have rivered a full house. This is especially true if he was the one who folded on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This player folded Q7o preflop.
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  #13  
Old 04-24-2005, 04:27 AM
milesdyson milesdyson is offline
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Default Re: Keeping fishies around

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks to everyone who tried to look like geniuses and reply with "OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU DIDN'T RAISE OMG OMG OMG". I thought I said enough times that i tried a different play than normal for one hand and that it didn't work the way I wanted it, but I guess I figured I had to deal with morons who have to try and make themselves look smarter than they are.

[ QUOTE ]
You should broaden your thoughts on your hand reading. He might have folded a seven, but it's not clear that he folded a hand that would have rivered a full house. This is especially true if he was the one who folded on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This player folded Q7o preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you at least appreciate the LOLrus? Really though there's playing a hand 'differently' and there's playing a hand profitably. You chose differently, this time.
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  #14  
Old 04-24-2005, 04:33 AM
Russ McGinley Russ McGinley is offline
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Default Re: Keeping fishies around

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks to everyone who tried to look like geniuses and reply with "OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU DIDN'T RAISE OMG OMG OMG". I thought I said enough times that i tried a different play than normal for one hand and that it didn't work the way I wanted it, but I guess I figured I had to deal with morons who have to try and make themselves look smarter than they are.

[ QUOTE ]
You should broaden your thoughts on your hand reading. He might have folded a seven, but it's not clear that he folded a hand that would have rivered a full house. This is especially true if he was the one who folded on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This player folded Q7o preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you at least appreciate the LOLrus? Really though there's playing a hand 'differently' and there's playing a hand profitably. You chose differently, this time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely I liked the LOLrus, although I like the ROFLCopter a little better. However, the "you should have raised!" posts were clearly pointless.
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  #15  
Old 04-24-2005, 04:33 AM
Lmn55d Lmn55d is offline
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Default Re: Keeping fishies around

raise preflop, raise the flop. If you raise preflop, you will get called by weaker hands in .5/1 for sure. And if you get it HU or steal the blinds, that's fine as well. I think you get maximum value by raising the flop rather than waiting till the turn on this board (waiting till the river is absolutely horrible). You might get 3bet by top pair, 2 pair, or a smaller flush allowing you to cap. Also everyone will probably will call one more on the flop but might not call a turn raise. Also, it could get checked to you on the turn, or someone to your right could bet, preventing you from "trapping" the field for 2 as you could have on the flop. Also, if a 4th club comes people will start dumping weaker hands that they would have called a flop raise with.
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  #16  
Old 04-24-2005, 04:38 AM
McGahee McGahee is offline
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Default Re: Keeping fishies around

I'm confused. They limp in with everything and fear your raises at the same time? Plus they're reckless raisers? Doesn't sound like typical fish.
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  #17  
Old 04-24-2005, 04:45 AM
Russ McGinley Russ McGinley is offline
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Default Re: Keeping fishies around

[ QUOTE ]
I'm confused. They limp in with everything and fear your raises at the same time? Plus they're reckless raisers? Doesn't sound like typical fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

I continually see hands go unraised preflop with AA, KK, QQ, AKs, AK, etc. at these tables. If I raise in EP, the flop is on average 4-handed. I completely understand that I missed bets on every street. I was hoping to avoid all the useless posts that have been in this thread chiding my non-raising, (except for the LOLrus) but reading isn't some people's strong suit. My question was about my play in relation to the HEPFAP paragraph, which was answered by the first person who responded. Everyone else that has responded has just been "I'd raise this!" which is a totally pointless response.
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  #18  
Old 04-24-2005, 04:53 AM
Lmn55d Lmn55d is offline
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Default Re: Keeping fishies around

The paragraph in HPFAP is referring to games where, when you raise, you will only be called by hands which dominate yours. As I'm sure you have seen, .5/1 on partypoker is not one of these games. You will be called by inferior hands when you limp, as well as when you raise. So might as well raise for value.
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  #19  
Old 04-24-2005, 05:03 AM
Russ McGinley Russ McGinley is offline
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Default Re: Keeping fishies around

The game isn't PP, its live 2/2 (no difference, I guess).

The paragraph/page in question is on page 159 and says:

"So, how do you apply the previous concepts to a very good hold'em game? That is, in a loose, passive game where many people see the flop and then play poorly after that. You should:

1. Play more hands than you would if the players were better, especially if you can get in for a single bet.
2. Frequently keep it to a single bet before the flop more than most people think because you gain a lot when bad players make incorrect calls on the flop and beyond, as long is the pot is kept small."

And so on. My mistake is obviously playing waaay too slow on the flop and throughout, as I kept hearing in my head "keep them all in" and before I knew it, the river was dealt. Poor postflop play by me (thanks to all who jumped in to point that out), although in relation to HEPFAP, I think the preflop limp in EP has merit. In LP I can't wait to raise the table, though.
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  #20  
Old 04-24-2005, 05:04 AM
Lmn55d Lmn55d is offline
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Default Re: Keeping fishies around

actually, while my comment still applies, I think you were referring to the loose games section of HPFAP. There, the authors were talking about keepin the pot small with hands like AQo. With a hand like AJs, you want to create a big pot usually if it is already likely to be multihanded so that you can win big if you hit a flush draw, etc. If the other players are gonna call with absolute trash, as they often do in .5/1, then not raising with hands like AQo, AJo is giving up a lot. This is talked about in Small Stakes Holdem and mentioned in HPFAP briefly.
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