Floor!!! what's the ruling??? - Page 3

Rick Nebiolo · #21 10-24-2004, 04:46 PM

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Me (Rick):That was my initial thought. But my friend pointed out that Shoton's call was not "in turn". Generally, verbal action in turn is binding, out of turn it is just table talk. So if Noli had the nuts and put Shoton all in with a massive raise (bigger than initially planned), and Shoton a merely good hand not able to stand a big raise, could Shoton back out of his commitment? I'm not sure.

You (KC):I don't think so Rick.

Think about this. If that were true would he also be able to fold when Noli raised the minimum. If this were true then it would give "everyone" the license to do this "every time" anyone just "announced raise". Then it would be stupid when your opponent just announced raise, not to say "call" out of turn if you knew that you could back out of your verbal statement. Make sense?

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If this was routine then announcing "call" before your opponent stacked off wouldn't be giving any information away. I also assume Shoton would call a minimum raise with any sort of hand.

But don't go by me, I have a wicked cold, have taken too much medications plus turns out the Patriots game wasn't on broadcast TV so I tried searching for info using Shoton as a search term (I remember his name being used). First I tried the "Recent Archives", the "Older Recent Archives", just plain search and so on, got no results and am now brain dead (at times I got no results searching for my name!). I hate searching this forum. End Rant [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

~ Rick

bigfishead · #22 10-24-2004, 07:28 PM

bet made, bet called

bigfishead · #23 10-24-2004, 07:30 PM

KC50 what you describe as the resultant explanation from the floor and subsequent rulling was extremely well handled.
I would be surprised if this floor person spoke to the dealer later on away from the table.

bigfishead · #24 10-24-2004, 07:33 PM

I have seen this numerous time in NL games. Each and every time the ruling is/was the same. The raiser may still raise any amount he wishes and the caller must call that amount.

Also each time...the raiser then made the MINIMUM raise. And naturally lost the pot.

youtalkfunny · #25 10-25-2004, 05:23 AM

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I understand soom rooms have a line just in front of the players and any chip that crosses the line has to stay.

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Nobody believes me when I say this, but those lines cause more arguments than they settle.

They seem to encourage idiots to see how close they can bring a chip to the line when they want to check. Another idiot will then insist that the chip touched the line, and he wants to force the first idiot to bet. The dealer is now asked whether or not the chip touched the line, which is akin to asking a tennis line-judge to make a call, except the line judge is in perfect position to make the call, and he can focus on the ball and the line. OTOH, the dealer is almost never in a good position to act as a line judge, and his eyes weren't focused on the spot in question, because he had no idea he would be asked to make this call.

My .02 on the betting line, though I like the "ergonomical" aspect.

About every fifth hand, the game stops so the idiots can argue about the line.

KC50 · #26 10-25-2004, 06:55 AM

I can see certain players raising a stink if my cardroom would implement the "line" rule. "Floor Floor, I know his chips didn't touch or go over the line but his hand with the chips in it was resting on the line"!

Although your post was amusing, it is sadly true. :&gt

Thanks for the smiles.

KC

Rick Nebiolo · #27 10-25-2004, 07:22 AM

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Nobody believes me when I say this, but those lines cause more arguments than they settle.

They seem to encourage idiots to see how close they can bring a chip to the line when they want to check. Another idiot will then insist that the chip touched the line, and he wants to force the first idiot to bet. The dealer is now asked whether or not the chip touched the line, which is akin to asking a tennis line-judge to make a call, except the line judge is in perfect position to make the call, and he can focus on the ball and the line. OTOH, the dealer is almost never in a good position to act as a line judge, and his eyes weren't focused on the spot in question, because he had no idea he would be asked to make this call.

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Thanks for the feedback. I've heard other good things about the line but your post sounds more plausable IMO.

~ Rick

ghettorat · #28 10-25-2004, 08:37 AM

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. For all coming here in the near future, Foxwoods rule is: If you move forward past your cards with chips, its a bet/call. Of course as with any rule at Foxwoods, this depends on who you are and who is working the floor. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Brad

Randy_Refeld · #29 10-25-2004, 01:47 PM

Rick,
The Bike has the line right.

Randy Refeld

BigBaitsim (milo) · #30 10-25-2004, 01:54 PM

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Here is a variant of the above problem: Player A (known angle shooter but great action) is first to act on the river and has about $700, with about $400 on the table and $300 in three stacks of twenty $5 chips in a chip rack. He takes the rack and slowly slides the rack well forward towards the pot. Before he releases his hold on the rack, Player B clearly says, “call”. Now Player A (who was apparently bluffing) tries to pull his rack back, and screams at the dealer and table that he hadn’t released his bet.

You are the floor and are called to the table. How do you rule?

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Bet made. Bet called.

I do think the floor should allow leeway when errors are made by newbies, which I saw a number of times at LL in Vegas. My wife tried to fold from the BB when she just needed to check and the dealer stopped her, that sort of thing.