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  #1  
Old 12-16-2005, 11:37 PM
thesharpie thesharpie is offline
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Default Too quick to go WA/WB?

Villain's been tight over 11 hands.

When I have a hand like this I think I go WA/WB too often. I'm over 2:1 to have the best hand if we give him a range of AK/AQ, AJs, KQs, AA-99. He's also probably not folding stuff except for maybe AQ and AJ, and there's a chance he overplays something I'm crushing. Raise the flop and call down a 3 bet, or do you think I get more value letting AQ/AJ hang themselves, and also discourage underpairs from folding?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls
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  #2  
Old 12-16-2005, 11:41 PM
UncleSalty UncleSalty is offline
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Default Re: Too quick to go WA/WB?

If he's really tight then the broadway Ace combos are a much bigger percent of his 3-betting range than anything with a K. However, with only 11 hands you really don't have much of a read at all, so he may be more proficient at blind defense than you think. (Which actually makes his range even wider.) I would call here and raise any non-A turn card. If the A falls on the turn I would call down.

Edit: To clarify, I am calling the flop bet rather than raising because I think we have the best hand here a large majority of the time and I want to extract extra bets on the turn and not slow villain down.
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  #3  
Old 12-16-2005, 11:46 PM
pokergrader pokergrader is offline
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Default Re: Too quick to go WA/WB?

I will call every street he bets (including river) and bet/call any street if he checks to me.
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  #4  
Old 12-16-2005, 11:47 PM
UncleSalty UncleSalty is offline
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Default Re: Too quick to go WA/WB?

[ QUOTE ]
I will call every street he bets (including river) and bet/call any street if he checks to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm..seems a little too weak to me, but I could be convinced. Can we agree to raise a diamond turn card? (Except maybe the ace.)
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  #5  
Old 12-16-2005, 11:56 PM
pokergrader pokergrader is offline
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Default Re: Too quick to go WA/WB?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I will call every street he bets (including river) and bet/call any street if he checks to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm..seems a little too weak to me, but I could be convinced. Can we agree to raise a diamond turn card? (Except maybe the ace.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Why exactly are we raising?

I might raise the river if he bet flop and turn, but I'm not exactly sure why I would raise the turn. What worse hands are going to call? What do you do if he 3-bets?
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  #6  
Old 12-17-2005, 12:49 AM
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Default Re: Too quick to go WA/WB?

hmm. this is read is only over 11 hands. Maybe he's just been getting junky hands. I'm thinking we should be pretty aggressive. For fear of folding him outright, I might just call and raise the turn. I'd rather raise on the flop tho.
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Old 12-17-2005, 01:29 AM
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Default Re: Too quick to go WA/WB?

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Old 12-17-2005, 02:03 AM
pokergrader pokergrader is offline
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Default Re: Too quick to go WA/WB?

[ QUOTE ]
hmm. this is read is only over 11 hands. Maybe he's just been getting junky hands. I'm thinking we should be pretty aggressive. For fear of folding him outright, I might just call and raise the turn. I'd rather raise on the flop tho.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why raise the flop? Hero knows exactly where he stands, and is taking this hand to showdown every time. I think the best way to induce mistakes from SB is confuse him by just calling the flop and perhaps calling the turn as well.

I can understand raising the turn or river, but raising the flop here is horrible IMO.
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  #9  
Old 12-17-2005, 02:28 AM
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Default Re: Too quick to go WA/WB?

[ QUOTE ]
Why raise the flop? Hero knows exactly where he stands, and is taking this hand to showdown every time. I think the best way to induce mistakes from SB is confuse him by just calling the flop and perhaps calling the turn as well.

I can understand raising the turn or river, but r aising the flop here is horrible IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well raising on the flop is cheaper and if we get 3-bet, it would clue us into a better hand than ours. Just because villian does a continuation bet on the flop OOP, doesn't mean that he necessarily hit; he could have AQ, AJ, etc. Like someone else said, it's probably more likely he has an A than a K. Sure, he could have a AK, AA, or KK. If he's aggressive, he'll 3-bet the flop or pop on the turn if it's a true monster.

Hero calls the flop 3-bet and reevaluates (a.k.a. has a flush redraw or improves). Since the flop is pretty draw dry, it's probably more likely that we're beat on the flop if we get 3-bet.

So I'd probably muck on the turn UI/no redraw. Is this weak-tight since there's only 11 hands? Calling down doesn't seem right to me. This line saves us money when we're beat and gets more money in if we are winning on the flop. Of course, if we knew exactly where we are against villian we could have a perfect line... I'd rather let my opponents invest their money so I can develop a read as time goes on. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #10  
Old 12-17-2005, 02:46 AM
smartalecc5 smartalecc5 is offline
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Default Re: Too quick to go WA/WB?

i agree with pg.
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