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  #11  
Old 12-04-2005, 05:33 AM
Exitonly Exitonly is offline
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Default Re: Help me out: Black AA face up?

if you could see your opponents cards and would play the hand the same way, you benifit. If you would have played it differently had you seen his cards, your opponent benefits. and on the other side, if your opponent can see your cards and would have played HIS hand the same, he benifits, if he would have played it differnetly you benefit.

I dunno if i explained it good, but by showing your hand you let your opponent it play it perfectly. (folding) therefor, they benifit.
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  #12  
Old 12-04-2005, 05:55 AM
CardSharpCook CardSharpCook is offline
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Default Re: Help me out: Black AA face up?

In fairness to OP, Adanthar recently stated that his very first post was this same question.

OP, www.pokerstove.com DL this, plug in AA and 5 other hands.

Hand 1: 51.7889 % [ 00.52 00.00 ] { AA }
Hand 2: 11.5191 % [ 00.11 00.00 ] { KJs }
Hand 3: 08.4690 % [ 00.08 00.01 ] { 88 }
Hand 4: 14.6378 % [ 00.14 00.01 ] { 86s }
Hand 5: 07.7256 % [ 00.07 00.00 ] { QTo }
Hand 6: 05.8596 % [ 00.05 00.01 ] { JTo }

You want all the action you can get with AA.
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  #13  
Old 12-04-2005, 12:01 PM
CamelZoo CamelZoo is offline
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Default Re: Help me out: Black AA face up?

Thanks to all for the replies, they were helpful esp the last one by CSC. In the tournament, I pushed for t4200 folded to button who called his last t2800 with QTs and hit the gorgeous KJ9 flop and scooped the pot leaving me with basically no chips. I guess my regrets were results oriented and given a similar situation I will probably just call to induce action. After getting sucked out on I thought to myself out loud, well, I'd be chip leader now or close to it had I flipped up the AA after pushing - but according to 2+2 I'd be a huge loser and I'd pretty much have to agree. No more fears of AA multiway!

Peace --
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  #14  
Old 12-04-2005, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: Help me out: Black AA face up?

[ QUOTE ]
WHEN YOU HAVE AA YOU WANT AS MUCH ACTION AS POSSIBLE. IF EVERYONE AT THE TABLE CALLED, YOU WOULD BE IN HOG HEAVEN. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T FLIP YOUR HAND UP.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the dumbest thing I have heard in a while. Do me a favor. Go run a simulation with AA against one random hand and then go do a simulation with AA against 5 random hands. Then come back and tell me if you still feel this way.
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  #15  
Old 12-04-2005, 08:15 PM
CardSharpCook CardSharpCook is offline
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Default Re: Help me out: Black AA face up?

Vs. 1 hand,

Hand 1: 85.1604 % [ 01.08 00.00 ] { AA }
Hand 2: 14.8396 % [ 00.19 00.00 ] { random }
85% chance of 2K chips, 15% 0K chips. Net EV is +700

vs 2:
Hand 1: 71.1824 % [ 00.71 00.00 ] { AA }
Hand 2: 14.7113 % [ 00.14 00.00 ] { random }
Hand 3: 14.1063 % [ 00.14 00.00 ] { random }

71% chance of 3K chips, 29% 0K. EV = +1130

vs. 3
Hand 1: 61.9914 % [ 00.79 00.00 ] { AA }
Hand 2: 08.7372 % [ 00.11 00.00 ] { random }
Hand 3: 15.6409 % [ 00.20 00.00 ] { random }
Hand 4: 13.6305 % [ 00.17 00.01 ] { random }

62% chance of 4K chips, 28% 0K. EV = +1480

vs. 4
Hand 1: 52.0768 % [ 00.52 00.00 ] { AA }
Hand 2: 08.3321 % [ 00.08 00.00 ] { random }
Hand 3: 11.3768 % [ 00.11 00.00 ] { random }
Hand 4: 15.5085 % [ 00.15 00.00 ] { random }
Hand 5: 12.7058 % [ 00.12 00.01 ] { random }

52%, 5K, 48% 0K. EV = +1600

Pstove can't handle 5 random hands. But what's your point? Obviously the law of diminishing returns applies, but every added hand only adds to the EV of the situation. 10-handed, I want everyone AI PF when I have AA.
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  #16  
Old 12-04-2005, 08:42 PM
Black Aces 518 Black Aces 518 is offline
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Default Re: Help me out: Black AA face up?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WHEN YOU HAVE AA YOU WANT AS MUCH ACTION AS POSSIBLE. IF EVERYONE AT THE TABLE CALLED, YOU WOULD BE IN HOG HEAVEN. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T FLIP YOUR HAND UP.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the dumbest thing I have heard in a while. Do me a favor. Go run a simulation with AA against one random hand and then go do a simulation with AA against 5 random hands. Then come back and tell me if you still feel this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do me a favor. Go run a simulation on how much more likely you are to win a tourney by doubling up vs. quadrupling up at the final table. Then come back and tell me if you still feel this way.
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  #17  
Old 12-04-2005, 09:13 PM
davidross davidross is offline
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Default Re: Help me out: Black AA face up?

This is a personal preference situation. If AK or another big pair is out there behind you calling or pushing makes no difference, the money will be going in pre-flop 3 or 4 way. I would want to know how much you liked your chances against this bunch, and what the other chip stacks were. My gut is to push here and hope I get 1 more caller. But if the pay structure is such that winning is really the only thing you are conscerned with I would lean towards calling and bringing more customers. You obviously have a better chance of moving up a couple of places by getting heads up here because you can't be eliminated, but you probably won't see another hand like this before the end of the tournament and your chances of tripling or quadrupling are better if you just call. Of course you're chances of going out 9th or 8th go up as well.
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  #18  
Old 12-05-2005, 02:51 AM
M.B.E. M.B.E. is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
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Posts: 1,552
Default Re: Help me out: Black AA face up?

[ QUOTE ]
if you could see your opponents cards and would play the hand the same way, you benifit. If you would have played it differently had you seen his cards, your opponent benefits. and on the other side, if your opponent can see your cards and would have played HIS hand the same, he benifits, if he would have played it differnetly you benefit.

I dunno if i explained it good, but by showing your hand you let your opponent it play it perfectly. (folding) therefor, they benifit.

[/ QUOTE ]
Careful applying FTOP in tournament situations. There are certain tournament situations, even heads-up, where it would be to your advantage to show your cards before your opponents act (though this isn't one of them).
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  #19  
Old 12-05-2005, 09:08 AM
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Default Re: Help me out: Black AA face up?

Let's say that you could choose between taking people on in a multiway pot or you could take them on one at a time (where you'd have AA each time). What should you prefer?

Let's say that you have As Ac and your opponents have Ah Kh and Ks Kc respectively. You all have 1000 chips. If you take them on at the same time, you're 78.22% to win. If you take them on one at a time, you're 81.71% against the kings and 87.23% against AKs.

EV on the multiway is .7822*3000 or 2346.6.

EV on one at a time is .8171*(.8723*3000+.1277*1000) or 2242.61.

So in this example it's better to take them on at the same time in a multiway pot than wait for AA against each opponent. Dunno if it holds up generally though...

That's just one more argument for getting as many opponents as possible with AA.
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  #20  
Old 12-05-2005, 11:29 AM
PFrese PFrese is offline
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Default Re: Help me out: Black AA face up?

[ QUOTE ]
WHEN YOU HAVE AA YOU WANT AS MUCH ACTION AS POSSIBLE. IF EVERYONE AT THE TABLE CALLED, YOU WOULD BE IN HOG HEAVEN. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T FLIP YOUR HAND UP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this true? I have always heard that AA against 5 players was actually an underdog to win the hand. I also saw where another poster said that they wanted all 10 players to go all in preflop when they have AA. Is this correct???? I have always played that AA is a great hand, but plays best against one or two opponents. Am I all wet?
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