Good bubble-bully? Donkpush the turn - 50+4

[LearnedfromTV]

I am trying to work on gauging when to push a big stack around postflop. I'm 15th or so out of 40 left, pays 30. Villain has been here a while and seems tight/straightforward. Flop bet seems weak but I think an ace calls a checkraise, and then I pick up extra outs on the turn against an ace... no brainer?

Seat 1: SB ($5,956 in chips)
Seat 2: Hero BB [Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ,K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] ($9,610 in chips)
Seat 3: UTG ($6,534 in chips)
Seat 4: UTG+1 ($821 in chips)
Seat 5: UTG+2 ($2,548 in chips)
Seat 6: MP1 Villain ($4,528 in chips)
Seat 7: MP2 ($8,593 in chips)
Seat 8: MP3 ($2,117 in chips)
Seat 9: CO ($9,904 in chips)
Seat 10: Button ($9,048 in chips)




ANTES/BLINDS
SB posts blind ($200), Hero posts blind ($400).

PRE-FLOP
fold to Villain, raise to $900, fold to Hero, Hero calls.

(T2000) FLOP [A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ]
Hero checks, Villain bets $650, Hero calls $650.

(T3350) TURN [Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]
Hero bets $8,060 and is all-in,

[adanthar]

I would tend to push or fold this PF due to the stack size/read.

An ace does call a checkraise, but it also calls this turn push, so you're not accomplishing much with this bet. Most of the time, he'll check behind on the turn and you can value bet the best hand on almost every river. If he bets again, he might give you odds to draw, but in any event he'll have at least an ace when he does.

[LearnedfromTV]

Yeah i think I outclevered myself here. Maybe if his stack was a little deeper. I do think the check call, bet is more believable as the flush if he is the type to be scared of his shadow and look for reasons to fold an ace. But I didnt have that strong a read. Regardless, it's basically 3K to win 3k, or to win 6k if he calls and I catch. Not going to run numbers but it can't be horrible, just not ideal.

PS I guess I was bluffing with best hand, as he folded.

[JustPlayingSmart]

I would push preflop. This is a somewhat annoying flop because if he has an ace he isn't folding if you check/raise all in. If I check/called flop, I would check the turn. He isn't folding a better hand to the push, and we might as well get some value out of hands that are way behind us if we can.

By the way, I don't think check/folding the flop, if he had made a stronger bet, would be terrible.

[LearnedfromTV]

[ QUOTE ]
I would push preflop. This is a somewhat annoying flop because if he has an ace he isn't folding if you check/raise all in. If I check/called flop, I would check the turn. He isn't folding a better hand to the push, and we might as well get some value out of hands that are way behind us if we can.

By the way, I don't think check/folding the flop, if he had made a stronger bet, would be terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, getting value out of worse hands didnt really cross my mind either. For some reason I was thinking he had a weak ace and i was going to push him off it. I think bubble psychology can play into this somewhat, but probably not enough to justify a bet that isn't likely a good bluff when it's a bluff and isn't a good value bet when it's a valuee bet. An Ace almost always calls, my flush outs are usually good, and when he has JJ or so with or without a spade i'd like to get something out of him. I think KK with no spade is about the only hand he can have where this push is right unless he's weak enough to fold an ace. I guess he might fold KK w/ spade too.

Guess I still need some practice with this sort of thing...