Fold this river UI?

redrooski24 · #1 10-10-2005, 04:54 PM

I think this is AK at worst, should I be folding this river?

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero calls, MP2 raises, 4 folds, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.33 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets, UTG folds, Hero raises, MP2 calls.

Turn: (5.66 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, Hero calls.

River: (9.66 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero ???

Final Pot: 11.66 BB

Piiop · #2 10-10-2005, 05:07 PM

Raise preflop.

Do you have a read on your villain? It is 7-handed, which increases his chances of having KQ/QJs/smaller pair.

W. Deranged · #3 10-10-2005, 05:17 PM

Against the range of hands that might be beating you on the turn (which includes primarily sets, overpairs, and AQ), you have much fewer than 5 outs on average here; it's really more like 3.5 or something like that.

Therefore, if you are calling the turn raise, you are doing so because you think that you can win enough unimproved to merit calling down. So if you call the turn you HAVE to call the river. (I don't think this is a situation where you would consider making a loose turn call hoping villain will often check the river, because I don't see villain checking the river in position often enough here.)

So your options are folding to the turn raise and calling down. This decision is very close and heavily read dependent. Against a standard opponent I think calling down is usually good in what has become a decent pot, though I certainly wouldn't take much issue with someone who advocated simply folding to the turn raise.

[P.S. I like a raise pre-flop. ]

redrooski24 · #4 10-10-2005, 05:24 PM

I was thinking about raising it up PF, but I'm still unsure about what to do with these speculativeish hands(KQo, AJo and the like) when there is an early limper. If it is folded to me I raise with these 100% of the time though. Thanks for the advice.

Oh, and I ended up calling down with the loser, up against AA. Suppose the PFR would have saved me a bet or 2 on the end

W. Deranged · #5 10-10-2005, 05:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I was thinking about raising it up PF, but I'm still unsure about what to do with these speculativeish hands(KQo, AJo and the like) when there is an early limper. If it is folded to me I raise with these 100% of the time though. Thanks for the advice.

Oh, and I ended up calling down with the loser, up against AA. Suppose the PFR would have saved me a bet or 2 on the end

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough. AA is actually one of the hands you want villain to have, because it is the hand against which you have the most outs.

Though it is a bit cliched to talk about the "informational" value of raises, one reason I like raising pre-flop with offsuit broadway hands like AJo and KQo is that they do generally make the hands substantially easier to play pre-flop because it is easier to estimate hand ranges for villains.