Bluff called by a Bluff

[Poker Jon]

Hey All,

1 table SNG at Stars - Blinds 50/100. This has been the tightest SNG I have ever played in. A lot of hands being folded - any raise folded round etc etc.

I have T2300, opponent has T1600.

I am in BB and get Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Min raise from EP all fold to me and I decide to call. I put my opponent on Ax, or a low pair.

Flop comes 10 6 4 rainbow. I check raiser bets T200 and I raise to T600. Raiser thinks and calls. Raiser has about T800 left.

Turn comes 5.

I check, raiser checks.

River comes K.

I push all in. Raiser calls and turns over AQo for A high which beats my Q high.

I will post my reasons for parts of play later, but I was a bit dumbfounded by this call. Fair enough, if you are at the WSOP final table you know your opponent inside out and you can confidently call with A high knowing it is good. But how many times in a SNG can you confidently predict your opponent has nothing???

I can't work out if it was a good call by my oppo, a bad call by my oppo, a good play by me or a bad play by me?

Anyone shed any light?

Cheers Jon

[t_perkin]

How did he play the rest of the tournament? you say table was super tight, so I assume that he was too.

Well either he had your number or he is just a fool. Who knows.

Or maybe he was just bored and wanted to go for lunch.

Either way - I would stick a not on him not to ever ever try and bluff him!

What stakes?

Tim

[SnakeRat]

In my opinion its bad play by both. If your going to bluff, then bluff at the turn where you have those openended straight draw outs. His call is really really really weak though. I dont understand why you want this pot so badly, personally I would fold that Q7 everytime to an early raise. He could have easily had AK KQ KJ and hit that king, or just be slowplaying a flopped set or some other kind of big hand.

If the flop had come queen high it would have cost you a lot of chips if not all of them. I mean ya lost almost all your chips on a board where neither of you hit.

Do you have reason not to respect this guys raise at all, and a good reason to make this bluff?

[DrPhysic]

Jon,
Simple Q: Why are you willing to bet chips on Qxs? I fold it without ever thinking about it when I am at a full table. HU is a different game, and I certainly will play Q7s. The fact that there are only you and he in the game does not make it head up, it makes it you against the best one of 8 other hands. Not the same at all.

Brunson lists the "trouble hands" as off suits of AQ, AJ, AT, KQ, KJ, KT, QJ, QT, T9. They are ones he plays carefully or late if at all. I don't consider Q7s nearly as good a hand as ATo, KQo, etc.

Another thought on the subject comes from Sklansky in TPFAP: the GAP concept. ie: it takes a better hand to call a bet than it does to make the original bet. Varying degrees of gap depending on players and circumstances. I just don't consider Q7s a "better hand".

I fold it.

Doc [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[DrPhysic]

Jon,
My prev post assumes that you had at least some idea that you could draw to it and play it for value.

If it was a pure bluff, literally an any two cards bluff, why not push after the flop? I wouldn't let him draw any more cards to give him ideas of winning if I want to take him out of the hand.

Doc

[Poker Jon]

Doc,

Seeing as this was a tight table I thought that if I can put my opponent on a small pair or Ax, then if my hand hit I would have a good chance of getting it paid off.

Also, I thought that i could possibly use the hand to bluff my opponent out of the hand seeing as the table was very tight - I was trying to change gears I suppose!!

I would not normally play this hand 999 times out of 1000, but you sometimes get a feeling don't you!!!

On reflection of the hand though, I don't think I played the hand too badly. I put him on a hand, made my play and have to stick by it. I probably should have put him all in on the turn if I was going to bluff, but on reflection of his hand, it doesnt matter whether I go all in on the turn or the river, he still shouldn't call IMO.

I suppose I couldn't understand why he risked all his chips on an A high call. My thoughts with the all in bet on the river - I was trying to present Kx. I knew if he had AK, I was toast but any other hand, I think he has to fold. Obviously not!!!!

Cheers Jon

[CrisBrown]

Hi Jon,

I've thought about this for a few days -- much longer than he had -- and the only clue I can find might be your check at the turn, after the check-raise at the flop. He might have scoped that out as a bluff check-raise when you didn't follow it up by betting out. That, or he had AQ, dammit, and there was no way he was going to lay it down....

However, I think when he called your check-raise at the flop, you had to give him credit for some kind of hand -- or at least for stubborness -- and give up on the bluff.

Cris

[DrPhysic]

Jon,
We could argue all day about how to best play your hand. The one thing i think is really not in question is that calling an all in bet on A high is pretty silly. He wouldn't get away with it very often. Clearly he did not play the hand correctly, unless something about your play on this hand or previously gave him the idea that you might be bluffing. You might think about whether something you did gave it away.

Doc

[DOTTT]

I agree with Cris your check on the turn probably looked suspicious to him. If you were holding a ten you would definitely bet the turn here because you would be scared of any over cards hitting the river. I still don’t like his call, actually I really hate the call.

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
I would not normally play this hand 999 times out of 1000, but you sometimes get a feeling don't you!!!


[/ QUOTE ]

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