Four Possibilities For Our Universes' Existence

[txag007]

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Is there a specific part of my post that is unclear, or is it just generally impenetrable? Either way I'll try to reiterate more clearly.

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If the universe has always existed, there would have to be an infinite supply of hydrogen in the universe.


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Since "time" began at the moment the universe came into existence, this is not the case. It would only be true if "always" referred to an infinite amount of time, which it does not.


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Yes, it does.

[RxForMoreCowbell]

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I assert that you know very little about quantum mechanics.

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That makes your argument. Well done.

I assert I could come up with a formula to show the possibility of being dealt a royal flush 6 hands in a row.

It could happen, but most people don't give it much consideration.

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Umm, are you saying quantum mechanics probably doesn't happen?

[Jeff V]

Come on. Of course not, read a little deeper.

[RxForMoreCowbell]

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Come on. Of course not, read a little deeper.

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Just making sure, but what you are saying then is that you believe you can put a percentage on how many occurances that happen in your life are guided by chance, and how many have a cause. I seriously doubt you can do this accurately, because it depends so greatly on what you define as an event.

[hurlyburly]

That's the problem when dealing with infinity. In a poker room with an infinite number of tables that seat an infinite number of patrons, the only time it would be wierd was when it happened to you.

You'd probably spend a lot of time reflecting on that experience. But it would still just be a really nice improbability.

Thanks for posting this thread, it reawakened my interest in cosmology!

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How about making it a rock slipping and falling in a higher dimensional space so that no other being is involved?

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And the IDEA that there MAY BE an intelligent designer is too far out for people that think this way? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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It's interesting to see this "new" "intelligent design" theory so popular now. I mean, what... did people ever really think God was "stupid" or something? It's like the old "God Dit It" theory was so overused, that some genius came up with a grand idea to use "intelligent designer" instead of "God" in the argument. I guess next we'll have the "Infinte Eternal Prime Mover" theory... or the "All Powerful Architect" theory... or the "Big Dude In The Sky" theory.

[VarlosZ]

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If the universe has always existed, there would have to be an infinite supply of hydrogen in the universe.

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Since "time" began at the moment the universe came into existence, this is not the case. It would only be true if "always" referred to an infinite amount of time, which it does not.

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Yes, it does.

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Ok, if you want to use the word that way. Though, if you believe that the universe is of finite age, it seems odd to take "always" to refer to a time before there was time.

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The big bang wasn't really an event, and the universe did not have a creation.

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Which would be the same thing as saying the universe has always existed.

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I'm not sure that you accurately assessed what DougShrapnel was saying, but I guess you'd have to ask him.

[Trantor]

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Who or what created that 'something that is infinite, and eternal'?


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If something is infinite, and eternal it wasn't created.

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This implies you do not believe any creator could create a universe which is infinite and eternal because there would be a contradiction: you would have to believe it was both created and not created.

This implies there are limits on what the creator you believe in can create.

Do you believe there are limits to what the creator you believe in can create, such as this one (if you believe in a creator)?

in your religion, is it blasphemous to believe in limitaions to the powers of your God.

if the God you believe in is not omnipotent in this respect are there any other acts you beleive He is inprinciple incabale of performing?

[DougShrapnel]

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If the universe has always existed, there would have to be an infinite supply of hydrogen in the universe.

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Since "time" began at the moment the universe came into existence, this is not the case. It would only be true if "always" referred to an infinite amount of time, which it does not.

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Yes, it does.

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Ok, if you want to use the word that way. Though, if you believe that the universe is of finite age, it seems odd to take "always" to refer to a time before there was time.

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The big bang wasn't really an event, and the universe did not have a creation.

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Which would be the same thing as saying the universe has always existed.

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I'm not sure that you accurately assessed what DougShrapnel was saying, but I guess you'd have to ask him.

[/ QUOTE ] You are doing a much better job than I could have.

[txag007]

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Ok, if you want to use the word that way. Though, if you believe that the universe is of finite age, it seems odd to take "always" to refer to a time before there was time.

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"has always existed"--What else can those three words mean?

Besides, look at the context of the original post. You know what it was talking about.