Dealing with posters.....

[jason_t]

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Bad.

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Eh, it's not that bad. I open A9s there and don't feel that it's any significant mistake.

I'd probably limp though and encourage a limpfest.

Rob

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I think that raising standards should be tightened in front of posters.

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I think this is wrong. I read it in some book that you should find raises more, I'll try to find it and post it here.

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We've already been through it on this forum. I'm really too lazy too look, but there is an old thread I think involving Evan and sthief09.

They're going to call and they have position on you.

[Shillx]

No Jason T is 100% correct here. There was an article about it in the Internet Magazine a few months back (it isn't there now) by Ed Miller that talks about this very issue. The exception would be if the posters folded far too often.

Brad

[baronzeus]

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They're going to call and they have position on you.

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True, but I think the author said they also have been forced to put money in with a random hand. So if you can play well out of position you should raise more to exploit your equity.

I may have taken it to an extreme.



Edit: I'll just find it so I stop talking out of my ass ... brb [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[jason_t]

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They're going to call and they have position on you.

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True, but I think the author said they also have been forced to put money in with a random hand. So if you can play well out of position you should raise more to exploit your equity.

I may have taken it to an extreme.



Edit: I'll just find it so I stop talking out of my ass ... brb [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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If you're raising lighter you don't have that much of an equity advantage anyway; any that you may have gets decreased by being OOP.

Use the extra money in the pot to justify seeing more flops with marginal hands but not for putting in more money with them than is justified.

[baronzeus]

No one's gonna like the source...but here it is:

Middle Limit Hold'em, Bob Ciaffone and Jim Brier

"There is a simple poker principle that pertains to this situation. The more money there is in the pot, the harder you fight for it......When someone posts a late position blind, if you are going to play, assuming you are the first to enter the pot, you should strain to find a raise with those hands you would normally limp. If your hand is worth playing, raise with it. If you are reluctant to raise, muck it. Consider yourself in a raise or fold situation...if there is extra blind money posted, it would be hard to find a situation where you would not prefer to bring it in for a raise. It is bad enough to let one or two people in the pot who have not even looked at their cards, let alone three people. A mere call is now inappropriate."



Have fun Jason (and Brad) [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Shillx]

What you have to understand is that there is a difference between a poster and a "bigger pot". Let's say that Bob Ciaffone [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] walks by your table and decides to toss $30 (2 small bets) into the middle. This is a much different scenario then the one you presented. You would obviously want to raise lighter in my example, but it is incorrect to do so in your case. People will still have a hard time calling a raise, even with that 2 SB of dead money in the middle. A poster will rarely fold for SB more if he has any type of modest hand.

Brad

[baronzeus]

I get what you are saying, but the whole section is about late position posters. (It even says so in the paragraph.) [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Rezman5]

I think this move depends a lot on table image and postflop playing ability. For all you know you might even be able to get heads up against one of these posters or the BB, and they might read your hand as very strong, as you raised into 2 posters and a blind. This move is about a lot more than your hole cards.

Edit: Just remembered you dont have an image against poster. Guess its just postflop playing ability then.

[thejameser]

i think it is marginal either way(if you play well postflop).

[naphand]

Mason also posted an article in the 2+2 magazine a month or two back where he raised (I think) 42s as the poster in CO, for the same reasons. Although as the poster raising, rather than another player raising the posters, the principle is the same.

Dead money in the pot adds a lot to your equity, even just getting the BB to fold adds significant value to a raise, anychance of getting 1 of the posters to fold is +EV, if two fold then you are making plenty of Sklansky $$.

Anyone at my table I see raising posters, or particularly raising as the poster I immediately make a note to watch them, as I consider this to be a strong indicator of a good player. Sometimes they just have a big hand, but as Baron has correctly identified/quoted the extra dead money is certainly worth fighting over. I think many (myself included) often under-estimate the additional EV value of dead money in a pot.

It is logical that you would be able to limp more hands in these spots but an EV analysis for a given hand comparing limping and raising will show the extra EV from getting just one poster/BB to fold is very significant. If they all call, bleh, you still have a drawing hand in a big pot.