AJs preflop. cap or call?

[ike]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that capping was necessarilly right. I usually don't here, but IMO its probably close in the game OP describes. I just meant that deception value is not an important consideration in whether or not to do it. Its a value bet, I don't know if its a good one.

[DcifrThs]

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cap.

-Barron

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Yuk.

-Scott

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im not autobetting all flops here...cap is for value. i dont have the 3btetor beat. but i have plenty of equity against him enough to want to get this huge pot to 4 bets. with all those other players in there i dont him if im 2nd or 3rd or whatever best (smaller pairs etc.. AK from the 3bettor) at the moment.

-Barron

[DcifrThs]

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Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that capping was necessarilly right. I usually don't here, but IMO its probably close in the game OP describes. I just meant that deception value is not an important consideration in whether or not to do it. Its a value bet, I don't know if its a good one.

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i jumped in and said cap. i can't remembe rthe last time i've done it and in the heat of battle i probably would call. but i think the cap has merits. you have good position vs. the raiser. an A or J may win the pot on spade boards in which you can raise a better A out of the pot. clearly the big pairs aren't going anywhere. you can check the flop and see the action and gain a lot of value from pupming a good draw. you also have a straight draw and a better hand that at least 1/2 the opponents in there so far or a better prospect hand than up to 3/4 of them.

i was probably too hasty to say its an easy cap, but it has its merits, and is in no way terrible. how much will you lose overall from this cap if its dead wrong. if its 100% wrong you lose 1 sb.

-Barron

[SoBeDude]

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and in fact, flies in the face of TOP concepts.

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I don't think capping is usually right. But this statement is not true. It is very possible that a cap with AJ could cause AK or AQ to fold incorrectly later in the hand.

For example: you cap, the flop misses AK, your opponent folds, and AJs holds up unimproved.

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Oh please. this is a LOOSE game, remember?

This is a serious misapplication of the TOP concepts.

AK isn't going to fold on the flop getting huge pot odds to call, and the chance of AJs winning unimproved is almost negligible, so is essentially irrelevant.

in a LOOSE game, the key concept is allowing your opponents to make mistakes postflop. This is how you make money. When you make the pot huge by capping, you essentially make it correct for all your opponents to keep playing to any sort of draw, and the value of your hand goes down.

And the flush gets there only 4% of the time, so given that you're contributing 20% to the pot, u can't justify the cap based on the nut flush potential.

[BoneCollector]

Just curious Barron, In a laggy game like this, despite the poor position, would you (or anyone) lean towards the preflop cap with hands that play well multiway (J10s, QJs, KJs)? Or are you only in here with an Ace-big suited.

[DcifrThs]

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Just curious Barron, In a laggy game like this, despite the poor position, would you (or anyone) lean towards the preflop cap with hands that play well multiway (J10s, QJs, KJs)? Or are you only in here with an Ace-big suited.

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the A of the suit is the reasonfor the cap imo. but this may be worth it with JTs b/c of the 4 ways it can make a straight vs. the nut flush...sux b/c of flush redraws which are likely out there though.

-Barron

[brick]

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and in fact, flies in the face of TOP concepts.

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I don't think capping is usually right. But this statement is not true. It is very possible that a cap with AJ could cause AK or AQ to fold incorrectly later in the hand.

For example: you cap, the flop misses AK, your opponent folds, and AJs holds up unimproved.

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this is a LOOSE game, remember?

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OK, the table and player reads are important.

[bernie]

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in a LOOSE game, the key concept is allowing your opponents to make mistakes postflop. This is how you make money. When you make the pot huge by capping, you essentially make it correct for all your opponents to keep playing to any sort of draw, and the value of your hand goes down.


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If you're going to play the pot manipulation game, the pot is already big enough that you'll have to likely wait to the turn to protect anything if you hit it. There's no reason not to make it 5 bets bigger. You're already looking at 20 bets. Given the table, you could also have the best hand at this point.

This is an easy cap.

b

[bernie]

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how much will you lose overall from this cap if its dead wrong. if its 100% wrong you lose 1 sb.

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If it's 100% wrong you still won't lose the whole 1 sb. Especially offset by the 4 other bets going in against it. On top of that, you may win the pot.

Given the description it's not like these guys' preflop raises should be respected. If the person 3 betting me was a tight(er) 3 bettor, even though he might be LAG with single raises, then I'd consider just calling it.

b

[DcifrThs]

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how much will you lose overall from this cap if its dead wrong. if its 100% wrong you lose 1 sb.

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If it's 100% wrong you still won't lose the whole 1 sb. Especially offset by the 4 other bets going in against it. On top of that, you may win the pot.

Given the description it's not like these guys' preflop raises should be respected. If the person 3 betting me was a tight(er) 3 bettor, even though he might be LAG with single raises, then I'd consider just calling it.

b

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as has been shown before im clearly an idiot.

you keep your equity share even if its 100% wrong.

Barron