did i play this wrong/make the wrong move here?

[alexd231232]

you mean folding it, which is what i did?

[MastiffPaul]

When you say this is a fold on the flop, do you mean before or after his raise?

[TITHEAD]

I would not raise pre flop with 66. When you got reraised that was the danger sign to fold the hand.

Oh and never ever chase hands unless you have a lot of outs!!

[bluefeet]

hello alexd [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

honestly, your problems did start PF. because of your raise, you were 'forced' to bet an exorborant amount on the flop (too much actually). your lead out on the flop is fine IMO (almost necessary to gain some info to entertain the idea of playing this hand past the flop) - as your 6's are likely the best hand. but you probably should have aimed a little closer to 3/4 pot IMO.

[for the record IN THIS POT - i slap myself for raising pre-flop and check/fold]

rewind:

you limp pre-flop (remember that next time). 4 - heck, we'll say even 5 now without the PF raise, see the flop. pot=T100 vs. T310.

bad news: 5 limpers (example), two hearts, an over to your 7.
good news: likely still holding the best hand, inside straight draw.

you bet out T80 (this could be argued with the number players, but if you proceed under the premise that this is a favorable flop, it's the right thing to do IMO). depending on the raise amount, # of callers, etc. you could then make a decision about the price to see the turn....or you could fold and only be out T100 (vs. T385).

with the small/mid pairs, it's all about getting to the flop as cheaply as possible. when the flop is semi-favorable, you will be in a chip position to lead out and evaluate the action that follows. all of this is MUCH harder to do, and a lot more costly when YOU built the PF pot to T310. granted with the all of the flop action on this flop, it might be difficult to determine all of your 'true' outs, pot odds, etc.etc. but i think you'll find your decision less clouded when you don't see 1/3 of your stack in the middle --- no reason for it to be this way. your "eh, 3xBB PFr sounds about right" had profound influence on your post flop decisions.

[alexd231232]

Thanks alot bluefeet, that makes alot of sense, but i still am somewhat confused at not raising big with a middle pair, dont i wanna isolate myself and AK, AQ, AJ, or something of that type of hand and go to the flop 50/50.
I can see that it'd hurt if i'm up against an overpair as well as how i play the flop when it comes Q 7 5 and i'm still holdin 66.
ANy insight?

[treeofwisdom7]

no

[bluefeet]

keep this in mind - most all middle pairs are going to be losers. an extremely small percentage will pay off big. the only way you are getting the big money is if you flop your set. PF, there is a given statistical chance of this happening (there are 50 unseen cards, only 2 help you....do the math). actions that you take to influence the number of players to the flop do not effect the likelyhood of you hitting your set. if you have to play 66 'x' number of times before winning a pot of say T500 -- would it stand to reason that you would want to keep each chances' cost at a minimum?

'raise big PF' accomplishes next to nothing...almost every time. if they all fold - woohoo, you picked up T30 in blinds (at what risk?). if you get called, you MUST consider yourself 'behind' to any flop lacking your set (as MOST will contain at least 1 overcard) . "damn, does he have an overpair? did he pair up w/ that A,K,Q,J,T,9,8,7?". throw in positional problems, drawing boards, and the inherent post-flop responsibilities of being the 'opener' PF....uhboy!

often even a flopped sets require a great deal of thought, as there will likely be draws involved as well. and GOD FORBID you flop 3 undercards - giving you now a lousey overpair!! or in the hand you posted - there will be occasions where it is 'somewhat favorable'...do you see the difficulties in post flop betting a T300 pot vs a T100 pot?

bottom line is that regardless of what comes on the flop (baring quads), you have work to do. you'll find the work at lot more managable when thoughts like 'pot committed' don't come into play.