A JJ hand

Elaboration · #1 09-14-2005, 12:40 AM

30+3 Tourney on Party Poker

Villian: t1050
Hero: t2300

blinds: 50/100

Folded to me in the CO with JJ and I raise to t300.
Villian in the sb calls with any A, any K, broadways, SC and pairs(fwiw I think he might re-raise ai w/ 77-88).

Flop comes A84 rainbow (t700)

sb checks, hero ?

Villian has t750 left after calling the pf raise.

I am relatively new to the table, but my read basically entails...
"-called big all-in reraise with KQo
-loose caller pre-flop
-donk"

Overly passive is not part of the read.

Thanks in advance.

TheBlueMonster · #2 09-14-2005, 01:41 AM

There's no right answer with those types of players. I would bet around 400..if he has the Ace you'll know pretty quickly.

Elaboration · #3 09-14-2005, 11:19 AM

*bump*

DDBeast · #4 09-14-2005, 11:42 AM

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There's no right answer with those types of players. I would bet around 400..if he has the Ace you'll know pretty quickly.

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So are you saying bet 400 and fold for another 300? If this guy is playing that many hands It's likely that he doesn't have an ace and I'd just push him in on the flop.

Elaboration · #5 09-14-2005, 11:58 AM

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So are you saying bet 400 and fold for another 300?

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This was part of my conundrum. I would not fold for another 300.

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playing that many hands It's likely that he doesn't have an ace and I'd just push him in on the flop.

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but then he'd fold any non A hand that I beat.

rockythecat99 · #6 09-14-2005, 01:33 PM

I think I check behind here. Hope a non broadway comes. I think he bets out with an Ace here if he is a donk like you mention. Hmm tough spot. I think he is going to put all his chips in the middle on the turn or river. I would call any non broadway turn push.

Dave D · #7 09-14-2005, 01:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
30+3 Tourney on Party Poker

Villian: t1050
Hero: t2300

blinds: 50/100

Folded to me in the CO with JJ and I raise to t300.
Villian in the sb calls with any A, any K, broadways, SC and pairs(fwiw I think he might re-raise ai w/ 77-88).

Flop comes A84 rainbow (t700)

sb checks, hero ?

Villian has t750 left after calling the pf raise.

I am relatively new to the table, but my read basically entails...
"-called big all-in reraise with KQo
-loose caller pre-flop
-donk"

Overly passive is not part of the read.

Thanks in advance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Standard for me is to bet 2/3 the pot. Fold if he pushes, but it sounds like he would believe you and fold. I can't see myself calling a push from him.

Rep that A.

edit: On second thought, after betting ~400, I can't see myself folding to a push. If he has the A he sucked out, but having ~16 BBs after this hand isn't a terrible spot to be in either. Hopefully a 2/3 pot bet folds him. I also think pushing at him looks like a bluff, and he might call with a weak ace, but there's always a chance you get that to fold w/ a 2/3 bet.

Oh, and I don't like a check. I think a check just invites him to push basically any turn, or bet strong at least and then you probably have to fold. A check behind also allows him if he paired something to draw for two pair or a gutshot. I don't like giving free cards here, and I still think your best move is to follow up your PF bet.

rockythecat99 · #8 09-14-2005, 02:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
30+3 Tourney on Party Poker

Villian: t1050
Hero: t2300

blinds: 50/100

Folded to me in the CO with JJ and I raise to t300.
Villian in the sb calls with any A, any K, broadways, SC and pairs(fwiw I think he might re-raise ai w/ 77-88).

Flop comes A84 rainbow (t700)

sb checks, hero ?

Villian has t750 left after calling the pf raise.

I am relatively new to the table, but my read basically entails...
"-called big all-in reraise with KQo
-loose caller pre-flop
-donk"

Overly passive is not part of the read.

Thanks in advance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Standard for me is to bet 2/3 the pot. Fold if he pushes, but it sounds like he would believe you and fold. I can't see myself calling a push from him.

Rep that A.

edit: On second thought, after betting ~400, I can't see myself folding to a push. If he has the A he sucked out, but having ~16 BBs after this hand isn't a terrible spot to be in either. Hopefully a 2/3 pot bet folds him. I also think pushing at him looks like a bluff, and he might call with a weak ace, but there's always a chance you get that to fold w/ a 2/3 bet.

Oh, and I don't like a check. I think a check just invites him to push basically any turn, or bet strong at least and then you probably have to fold. A check behind also allows him if he paired something to draw for two pair or a gutshot. I don't like giving free cards here, and I still think your best move is to follow up your PF bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with this is that if villain doesn't have an Ace he folds, we make no money. Villain has an ace he pushes we call we lose our money. So either we make no money or we lose all our money. Checking induces a bluff which villain has shown capable of doing. We WANT middle pairs to push. If he hits a miracle card to outdraw us "thats poker".

Dave D · #9 09-14-2005, 02:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
30+3 Tourney on Party Poker

Villian: t1050
Hero: t2300

blinds: 50/100

Folded to me in the CO with JJ and I raise to t300.
Villian in the sb calls with any A, any K, broadways, SC and pairs(fwiw I think he might re-raise ai w/ 77-88).

Flop comes A84 rainbow (t700)

sb checks, hero ?

Villian has t750 left after calling the pf raise.

I am relatively new to the table, but my read basically entails...
"-called big all-in reraise with KQo
-loose caller pre-flop
-donk"

Overly passive is not part of the read.

Thanks in advance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Standard for me is to bet 2/3 the pot. Fold if he pushes, but it sounds like he would believe you and fold. I can't see myself calling a push from him.

Rep that A.

edit: On second thought, after betting ~400, I can't see myself folding to a push. If he has the A he sucked out, but having ~16 BBs after this hand isn't a terrible spot to be in either. Hopefully a 2/3 pot bet folds him. I also think pushing at him looks like a bluff, and he might call with a weak ace, but there's always a chance you get that to fold w/ a 2/3 bet.

Oh, and I don't like a check. I think a check just invites him to push basically any turn, or bet strong at least and then you probably have to fold. A check behind also allows him if he paired something to draw for two pair or a gutshot. I don't like giving free cards here, and I still think your best move is to follow up your PF bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with this is that if villain doesn't have an Ace he folds, we make no money. Villain has an ace he pushes we call we lose our money. So either we make no money or we lose all our money. Checking induces a bluff which villain has shown capable of doing. We WANT middle pairs to push. If he hits a miracle card to outdraw us "thats poker".

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm perfectly happy winning the pot right there w/o further action. That may be weak tight, but w/ a smooth caller it's hard to ask for more. To me, this hand isn't about making money as it is winning what's already in the pot and not losing money. I still think you have a chance to fold a weak ace by betting out, which outwieghs the small chance that a weaker pp pushes the turn. I don't want to give him a chance to draw out for free on the turn, and I'm not calling a push on the turn after checking the flop.

I'd rather use my folding equity on the flop to win this small pot, than hope by JJ is good to his inevitable push on the turn (or bet, which we push, and he calls).

Elaboration · #10 09-14-2005, 04:40 PM

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That may be weak tight, but w/ a smooth caller

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There was nothing smooth about this caller.

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I still think you have a chance to fold a weak ace by betting out,

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No. He has 700 left at the 100 blind level. If he called off 30% of his stack with A rag I dont think he plans on check folding an A high flop. I mean, funnier things have happen, but...

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and I'm not calling a push on the turn after checking the flop.

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Fair enough.