First Hand Post....AKo utg+1

MrPokerPants · #1 10-11-2005, 04:30 PM

I have been a lurker here for quite some time, and thought it was about time that I posted a hand.

Just sat down, no reads....

I feel like my play to the turn was pretty straitforward....after that I slowed down, and was wondering what you guys think....should I raise here to get any possible gutshots out, or is there a reasonable enough chance that I am already beat and need to just call it down?

Thanks for any input.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, 3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, CO calls, Button calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls.

TheMainEvent · #2 10-11-2005, 04:36 PM

I would definately raise the turn. Nothing about the flop action or the turn card indicates that you are behind, and there are weak draws to protect against. If you don't raise, CO and Button will probably be correct to call with pretty much whatever they called on the flop wtih.

SeaEagle · #3 10-11-2005, 04:40 PM

BB probably has 2 pair or better in this situation, but I still favor a raise. With 5 people in the hand, you only have to win 20% of the time for your raise to be +EV. With such a coordinated board and the pot so big you want to make legitimate draws pay to see the river and you want to face weak draws (gutshot) with incorrect odds to call.

When the pot gets big, you want to maximize your chance of winning the pot. Raising does that here but calling doesn't.

Fat Nicky · #4 10-11-2005, 04:41 PM

Flop is standard. This is a draw heavy board and the 5 way action going to the turn does not suprise me and in a pot this big, there could be so many combinations of hands (ie. flush draws, gut shot straight draws, pair and flush draw, pair and straight draw, etc).

The 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] on the turn is a perfect card. BBs donk bet is a bit confusing, I feel like he could have KQ or something like that. The pot is padded, so I'd go ahead and give the turn another pop. I hate giving the CO and the button odds to hit a gutshot. I also want then to fold a smaller pair or even a weaker K.

deception5 · #5 10-11-2005, 04:54 PM

I agree with the others - raise the turn. The stop and go here is usually trying to prevent you from getting a free card with a made hand. Occasionally you'll be 3-bet but usually called down.

elindauer · #6 10-11-2005, 05:24 PM

I'm having a very hard time putting the donk-bettor on a hand we can beat. He can't possibly be bluffing the turn into all these players after all this action, and if he had a draw and was prone to bet for value, he'd probably have done it on the flop when he had the golden 3-bet the field opportunity.

This bet looks like somebody who has a pretty good hand, but who is concerned about the draws out against him. He wants to wait until the turn to see if the heart Q or J hits. When the blank 4d arrives, he thinks he's good and attacks. Is this KQ? Seems unlikely.

The best case for us is, I believe 9T where we actually have some outs. I think his most likely holding is KT. 99 and TT are possible but I think he'd just attack the flop with a holding that strong and all those players.

I don't think you are going to fold much that you want to fold with a raise. Any flush draw and any pair+straight draw is going to call. So, although your hand is vulnerable and you'd normally want to raise here, I think with this board and this action, calling is best. Tough call though.

good luck.
eric

HajiShirazu · #7 10-11-2005, 05:46 PM

You would like to protect your hand here, but the odds you are giving are exactly the same as when you raised on the flop, so it's unlikely that anyone folds. Some of they may make a mistake by calling, but that assumes you have the best hand. I think you are beaten badly with 0-6 outs fairly often here but still probably win 20-25% of the time. So this is a very close decision that is based on what you know about the BB. Since you know nothing, I lean toward a calldown assuming the river action doesn't go too badly.

MrPokerPants · #8 10-12-2005, 12:27 AM

During the hand I thought that on this well coordinated board, it was highly likely that I was behind two pair at the best, and a straight at worst. After the hand I thought that a turn raise would have been better, but didn't know if the results were making me think that. When the ace hit on the river, my hand improved, but I had a different donk bettor this time, and I must admit that it really confused me. I think that on the turn I had already decided to just call this one down, and probably missed a few bets because of it.

On the river, assuming I raise, I think that when I am ahead, BB folds, UTG calls and I still get same amount of bets. However, if I am beat, I will loose one - two more bets than just calling gives me.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, 3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, CO calls, Button calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls.

River: (15.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, CO folds, Button folds, BB calls.

Final Pot: 18.25 BB
Main Pot: 18.25 BB, between BB, UTG and Hero. > Pot won by Hero (18.25 BB).

Results in white below: 
BB has Qc Kc (one pair, kings).
UTG has Jc Ad (one pair, aces).
Hero has Kd Ah (two pair, aces and kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 18.25 BB.

Grease · #9 10-12-2005, 12:46 AM

I'm definitely leaning towards a turn raise, because you really need to protect your hand here. I'm not thrilled by the villian's stop and go, but he may have something like KQo and want you to protect his hand for him. I only worry if he (or someone else) 3-bets you here. Reads would help for future reference, but it's cool.
Welcome to the forums.

shant · #10 10-12-2005, 03:40 AM

You should've raised the turn, but why didn't you raise that river?