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#1
07-14-2005, 12:25 AM
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How do PokerEdge, PokerProphecy etc. manage to get all the data?
Just curious here? Can't the casinos tell there's something monitoring there tables?
I mean, somehow PokerEdge, PokerProphecy et. al. have to be getting to the data, right? Wouldn't long term "railbird" processes set off a "red flag"? 
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#2
07-14-2005, 03:29 AM
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Re: How do PokerEdge, PokerProphecy etc. manage to get all the data?
This is accumulated by users, in which they are actually at a table and the program collects the data live, which is then stored. Think of it as a super Poker Tracker where the data from all users can be combined into one central database.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this and it is in no sense cheating. In terms of the advantages this provides over programs where you collect your own data, there are minimal advantages up front and no real advantage once you've been playing with it for awhile, as the data you can mine yourself will be more than sufficient. Contrary to what a lot of people may think, you don't need a large sample at all to get a good read on a player, and a few hands is enough really. At the site I play and with the software I use, I'm the only user at these games and have been able to accumulate a very workable database all by myself. KC
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#3
07-14-2005, 08:26 AM
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Re: How do PokerEdge, PokerProphecy etc. manage to get all the data?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this and it is in no sense cheating
Except of course that sharing site data with others is against the TOS (ie the rules) which you signed up to when you chose to play their site. Some folks might say that using software to aid your play which breaks the rules you agreed to is exactly 'cheating'.
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#5
07-14-2005, 06:40 PM
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An Offshore TOS is Not Legally Binding On Anyone, Anywhere
The TOS rules are so vague and all encompassing...
That they are virtually meaningless. Every day they can and are... Applied in an ** arbitrary ** way by Party. There is also no meaningful legal jurusdiction... Where a player can defend oneself against wrongful siezures. So why is "Mr. High Road" shilling for Party? All together now with feeling... FOR THE MONEY. rm+ [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
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#7
07-14-2005, 10:42 PM
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Re: How do PokerEdge, PokerProphecy etc. manage to get all the data?
The T&C say they can close your account for any reason, including having another casino's software installed on your computer if you read enough into it. You can argue the T&C all day. I think a better point is that T&C's are basically crap.
We sell software, and I'm farely confident that we could add into our T&C that "By clicking accept we will show up at your doorstep tomorrow and you must give us $10,000." 97% of customers would still accept (because they wouldn't read it). Is this enforceable? No. A more extreme example would be "We'll come to your house and shoot you in the head". I have the feeling we would still go to jail. T&C is just a guideline, stating you agree gives the company more leverage/better arguments in a legal situation. They are not "the law" but rather a guideline that helps them if the law gets involved. All software companies try to make their customers think the T&C is the law, but as soon as you take it to court, they become "supporting evidence".
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#8
07-17-2005, 12:13 AM
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Nice Balanced Analysis
Refreshing to see a post...
From someone who's not brainwashed by Big Poker. rm+ [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
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#9
07-17-2005, 01:00 PM
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Re: How do PokerEdge, PokerProphecy etc. manage to get all the data?
[ QUOTE ]
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this and it is in no sense cheating Except of course that sharing site data with others is against the TOS (ie the rules) which you signed up to when you chose to play their site. Some folks might say that using software to aid your play which breaks the rules you agreed to is exactly 'cheating'. [/ QUOTE ] Many TOS or EULAS have been ruled to be invalid in a court of law already, just because its in an agreement doesn't mean its enforceable. IGM/Party has the right to keep you from reverse engineering their application because they own the copy write, and are allowing the user to use the application via a license. However the logs which are stored locally on your computer are now owned by the user, there is no proving intellectual property in a log (please someone correct me if they believe I am wrong here, and show why with existing legal decisions). Hand Histories are just that, a log that is written locally for the end user to use at his or her own discretion. Since this is the end users property, not a licensed application, he or she is free to use, reuse, submit, or sell the data contained within. In short.... Party might be breaking the law. Interesting huh? TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
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#10
08-02-2005, 02:29 AM
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Re: How do PokerEdge, PokerProphecy etc. manage to get all the data?
Actually, this goes beyond the TOS and who has rights to the hand history details.
The fact is that if you share knowledge you gained from playing certain players with other players, it can be construed as collusion. In fact, I'll bet the majority of players would agree to the following question: "If some of the players out there were collecting data, sharing it to make a super-database, and then using that database to know what hands you play and how you bet them, whould you describe those players as 'colluding against you?'"
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