Implied odds?

DRD66 · #1 09-21-2005, 04:25 AM

I thought this was easy when I played it, but now I'm not sure. No reads, first hand at this table - GT+ not opened yet.

Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, Hero (poster) checks, CO calls, Button raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: (15 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG calls, UTG+2 raises, Hero ???

I know I don't have pot odds to call this, but in retrospect I'm wondering if I had implied odds? If the king falls, I should clean up on the river. How do I think this one out?

Highn · #2 09-21-2005, 04:33 AM

I don't like the pre-flop post, the pre-flop call and I don't think you have the implied odds to call the turn because you could just as well be splitting the pot with another T. You're taking the implied odds thing way too far. It usually is effective when it's a close decision between calling and folding, this case is an obvious fold in my opinion.

DRD66 · #3 09-21-2005, 04:43 AM

Well, I had no choice on the PF post (just sat down, remember?), and I'd call 1 small bet with most anything when 6(!) people already called 2. Just reread the SSHE bit about implied odds before this session, trying to find out how to put it in practice. Is there a way to get a hard number on it, or just go by feel ("easy fold", "close enuf to call" etc.) Someone enlighten me. I guess I'm figuring these guys are betting/raising less than top pair or flush draws, and I could extract at least 2, maybe 4+ bets on the river if I make it, but don't know how to quantify this.

pryor15 · #4 09-21-2005, 04:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I had no choice on the PF post (just sat down, remember?)

[/ QUOTE ]

it's called waiting.

Highn · #5 09-21-2005, 04:53 AM

You add the extra bets you think you might extract when you hit your draw to the pot size.
Consider you might get 3-bet on the turn though so you'de be calling even more bets.

DRD66 · #6 09-21-2005, 04:59 AM

OK, I could have waited, but I've got limited playing time tonight and the "post or wait" argument is a whole other question that's been discussed to death here.

Here's two other pieces of info that may help y'all help me:
1) Just made the jump from succesful .25/.5 player to getting killed at .5/1 (like many others it would seem) and am desparately trying to find the leaks
2) (in white to not spoil results) Of course a king came on river, which was raised and re-raised by 33 and Qx 

Anyone want to help me with the original question?

Highn · #7 09-21-2005, 05:03 AM

I did...

POKhER · #8 09-21-2005, 05:13 AM

Turn: (7.50 BB) 3 (7 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG calls, UTG+2 raises, Hero ???

7.50BB Pot + BB bet + UTG's + 2x UTG+2
11.50 and 2 back to us to call.

Now i'm not sure if UTG+2 thought about his raise, he could just hold A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] X[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and be raising for equity(Tiny tiny edge) OR HE IS PROTECTING his hand from the gutshots or he just hit a card.

So if UTG+2 has played well throughout the game, these kind of actions are what i personally put into notes about players("No's Equity" "No's Protection" - But see when you get to showdown).

Anyhow concerning if you can call or fold...
We're getting 11.50:2 to call, 5.75:1

We need 10.5:1 to call so must pick up atleast 5BB's to make it .25BB profitable.

For me, This is a fold simply because as said you may split with another Ten and will you even get 5BBs?

DRD66 · #9 09-21-2005, 05:14 AM

Yes, you did (while I was typing slowly). Thank you.

Nick Royale · #10 09-21-2005, 05:16 AM

Tour implied odds is largely reduced by the fact that a K puts a 4 straight on the board, 2-pair won't raise you. Besides you might split the pot if you hit. You're not close to having the implied odds to call the turn. And this hand should have been folded preflop.