hand 5 - "How good is your Limit Holdem?"

[cpitt398]

QJ is easer to play, and will probably mke more off of it.

[Lmn55d]

I think he's right actually. In 170k hands the following two things don't happen too often:

1) Everyone folds to you on the button
2) You have QJo or A8o.

I would guess you need at least one million hands for your data to have some significance taking into account the standard deviation in this game.

[kiddo]

What does my sample size got to do with anything?

I didnt say I think he is right because PT tells me I win more with one of the hands. Just said it made me not mail him, and post here instead to see what u think.

By the way, I play 6max, I got 100 of each hand first in from BB. And I totally agree, PT could be wrong or I could misplay one of the hands.

[kiddo]

But A-high wins more often unimproved.

[Lmn55d]

yea i know, I am just saying that it's important to be careful about analyzing those sorts of situations by looking at a database like that. 100 of each is not nearly enough to have any statistical difference.

[golferbrent]

[ QUOTE ]
In hand 5 in his book "How good is your Limit Holdem?" Jacobs asks this question:

If u are first in on the button, which hand do u prefer:

1) A8o
2) QJo

This was easy for me, but when I looked at the answer he totally disagreed. I was just about to mail him telling him he did a serious misstake but before that I looked in Pokertracker at my last 170K hands to see just how big misstake it was. To my surprise he was right.

Which hand do you prefer?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would prefer Q-Jo much more to A-8 for the reason that when you flop a pair you are more likely to have top pair whereas A-8 is a much more dicey proprosition to play once the flop comes.

I find often when I raise on the button that I am getting called down a lot with any pair hand... therefore in my opinion A-high loses a lot of value. Therefore I would prefer the hand that will flop a top pair good kicker hand that will be paid off often by 2nd pair or 3rd pair.

[ggbman]

When you hit the flop with QJ, hitting either card will usually give you the best hand against a blind, which is true less often than A-8. WHile ace high has showdown value, it's probably not enough to compensate for times you flop very weak hands that you are tempted to show down. ALso, since the blids range of hands is wide, as someone noted, you will will with continuation bets a lot when an ace or King flops anyway.

[bobdibble]

[ QUOTE ]
With QJ, you win usually if an ace flops anyways.

[/ QUOTE ]

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
But A-high wins more often unimproved.

[/ QUOTE ]

The two ways you can be confident your A8 will win is a) if the flop is 8 high or b) the flop contains an ace. This does not happen very often, and if you are betting into a J92 flop with A8, and your opponent will call you with mid pair and you are likely drawing to 3 outs and a backdoor straight draw. Needless to say, playing weak unsuited aces is one of my biggest leaks IMO.

QJo can win in many ways. If you flop a Q or a J you have TPGK most of the time-and when you don't, assuming the blind didn't raise you, your hand is still usually good.

Also, Even when the flop is unfavorable - say T62r, you have 6 solid outs and a backdoor straight draw almost every time. This isn't ideal, but you are in much better shape with QJ than A8 if your opponent flops a pair.

Also, assuming that in a steal situation A8 is far better than QJ unimproved is incorrect. When the blind doesn't 3bet you before the flop, he likely doesn't have an A high hand, and in turn, doesn't have you beat UI anyways.




PS Kiddo do you still coach? send me a PM

[ike]

I think its QJo by a good bit. I agree with all the reasons other people have posted but theres one more, IMO pretty big one, no one's mentioned yet: QJ will find itself ahead of a strong second best hand much, much more often than A8 will.