QUESTION: Implied Odds

[Catt]

I just quickly read a short section in Yao's book in which he discusses pot odds, implied odds, and estimated pot size (EPS). You should understand that Yao's decision to focus on EPS makes implied odds redundant -- not because he's saying that implied odds aren't important, but because EPS itself is an estimate of implied odds. The example he gives is 6 BBs and 1 bet to you on the turn. You are confident that Villain calls a bet on the river if you hit. The EPS is 7 BBs (the 6 BBs at stake in the pot, plus the 1 additional BB Villain will pay on the river -- note you are not counting your bets on the turn and river since you just get these bets back when you win). Using the terminolgy of pot odds and implied odds, we'd say that your pot odds on calling the turn are 6:1 but your implied odds are 7:1 because you expect to earn another bet on the river when you hit your draw.

Yao largely does away with the distinction between pot odds and implied odds and asks you to focus on what he calls EPS (which in reality is the same as implied odds). So you may be a bit confused in trying to reconcile both implied odds and EPS when in reality they are the same thing.

All that said, I think it is difficult to accurately gauge, on the flop, what your implied odds / EPS will be when the betting is all done at the river -- too many variables over two streets of poker. As Yao writes himself on pg 85 in reference to using the DIPO method and EPS on the flop: "Do not go further than the Turn when counting the EPS." Just stick to a street by street analysis and you'll have less confusion, I think.

[imashyboi]

Hey, I understand what he meant when he wrote Implied Odds and ESP. They both mean the same thing but said differently. I figured that counting these street by street is probably the best and accurate way. The only part I was having problems with is whether to include the money you put in from the Flop when counting the next ESP on the Turn.

From what I learned, after all Flop bettings are done, all the money that are inside the pot are now up for grabs. On the Turn, everything starts over again. Start counting your pot odds and readjust them using ESP on the Turn. Do I have this right?

I think when Yao said: "Do not go further than the Turn when counting the EPS." He meant, don't count pass the Turn when you're using ESP on the Flop. If you plan on using ESP again on the Turn since the card was a blank, do so by recalculating everything including the curret bets to get your EPS.