Daniel Negreanu says O8 is Barry Greenstein's worst game - Page 4

Wintermute · #31 11-03-2005, 02:27 PM

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lol-- at the expense of their dignity.

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I assume you're talking about my opponents during that session? OK. Explain to me how I have harmed anyone's dignity by losing $1000 to a dozen or so players over the course of an hour, thereby presumably giving them a very strong winning session by their standards, bolstering their confidence, probably causing many of them to bang their wives/girlfriends a little harder that night, in turn making their sig others feel more loved, in turn causing their families to grow closer, etc.

Hell, I deserve a medal for my charity work.

Cooker · #32 11-03-2005, 02:33 PM

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Hell, I deserve a medal for my charity work.

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I would second this if you can show any of the banging happened in a Stormtrooper costume.

Mendacious · #33 11-03-2005, 03:55 PM

The dignity remark (prefaced by lol) was a joke. You Stormtrooper clones have no sense of humor. Keep up the good work, and tell me next time you are playing. In fact play a few SNGs with me. I usually go for UB or Stars Turbos.

Ironman · #34 11-03-2005, 04:37 PM

No...I'm not positive about this. But he makes a very clear distinction by listing stud hi/low and stud 8 and Omaha hi/low on his list of games. If he meant 8 or better, he would have made that distinction.

Dave

Drizztdj · #35 11-03-2005, 04:48 PM

I must break you!!

Mendacious · #36 11-03-2005, 05:12 PM

I hate to say this, but judging by other contextual clues i think you are dead wrong about this.

gergery · #37 11-03-2005, 05:30 PM

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getting paid off by virtue of advertising--happens *all the time* for me. It's naive to think my opponents are always "just bad".

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I can personally attest that I have paid off Wintermute on more than 1 occasion when I should not have. in fact, he was one of the few at the table who I would have paid off. And it's because I've seen him make big bets and raises with hands I was clearly ahead of.

The LAG style is a difficult one to play against, and it relies on meta-game, game-theory type considerations for its success. Which is why single-hand EV calculations are misleading when trying to assess the effectiveness of its overall style.

And its for precisely these meta-game reasons that trying to correctly assess the play of very good players who are playing many hands with each other is utterly pointless.

-g

barryg1 · #38 11-04-2005, 06:29 AM

I think much of the analysis in this thread is close to the way I thought about the hand. I thought it might be a -EV play in isolation, but I like to put pressure on my opponents, even though I may be way off at times.

You guys missed three important points.

1) Eli is a player who will bet most of the when a high flop comes if he is checked to. I took a shot at knocking out the other hands, which presumably have better back-door low draws, and giving me a chance to hit my emergency low some of the time.

2) How did my hand get shown?

I didn't have to show the hand, but I did it voluntarily after the winning hand was shown. Even though I had a few winning cards, my hand looked pretty sick against the hands I was up against, so I thought it might encourage some of the weaker players to see it.

3) I will never post about curious hands that my opponents play. I am happy to see them. I have no criticism about any plays Daniel has made, and I never argued when he posted that he knows things about short-handed stud that I don't know when we played our two heads-up seven stud matches. He said he was a clear favorite. I have no problem with him thinking he is better than me at all games. If he didn't think that, we probably wouldn't get to play against each other.

Barry

randomstumbl · #39 11-04-2005, 08:00 AM

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3) I will never post about curious hands that my opponents play. I am happy to see them. I have no criticism about any plays Daniel has made, and I never argued when he posted that he knows things about short-handed stud that I don't know when we played our two heads-up seven stud matches. He said he was a clear favorite. I have no problem with him thinking he is better than me at all games. If he didn't think that, we probably wouldn't get to play against each other.

[/ QUOTE ] I think this is an interesting point. What is Daniel's goal in posting all these misplayed hands? The triple draw hand he has on his website is just a typical bad play that you'd see in a 5/10 or 10/20 game. What possible benefit does he gain from belittling his opponents in public? This doesn't seem like good natured needling to me, but I don't actually know any of the people involved either.

Mendacious · #40 11-04-2005, 08:40 AM

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2) How did my hand get shown?

I didn't have to show the hand, but I did it voluntarily after the winning hand was shown. Even though I had a few winning cards, my hand looked pretty sick against the hands I was up against, so I thought it might encourage some of the weaker players to see it.

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I don't understand what you mean by this. According to Negreanu you had the winning low hand. Are you suggesting that there is a situation in which you would hold the winning hand at showdown and muck it?

Would you have shown the hand if no low had come, for "advertising" purposes?

Thank you for taking the time to respond to this thread.