Right to Call PF?

toss · #1 03-13-2005, 01:22 AM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 caps, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (27 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds.

Turn: (15.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, MP1 checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls, SB calls, MP1 folds.

River: (18.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP3 bets, Hero folds, SB calls.

Final Pot: 20.50 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has Kh Qh (high card, ace).
MP3 has Kd Tc (high card, ace).
Outcome: SB wins 20.50 BB. 

Crazy call at the end.

GrunchCan · #2 03-13-2005, 01:28 AM

I think you almostg have to call PF. In fact, if it were UTG who raised and everyone coldcalled behind him, I'd reraise PF. Tie your opponents to the pot when you hit the flop hard, like you did.

Sorry none of your 15 outs came in. They will next time.

DeathDonkey · #3 03-13-2005, 01:28 AM

What an insane pot. Sure its ok but not like "this is a must-call". Pretty funny to think you could have taken this down with a turn or river raise [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

-DeathDonkey

toss · #4 03-13-2005, 01:31 AM

Hehe yeah. I almost wish I was drunk so I woulda raised somewhere.

toss · #5 03-13-2005, 01:33 AM

I never really understoof the pot building concept with suited connectors in a large multiway pot. Am I building the pot for myself so that I'll have outs to chase gutshots and whatnot?

GrunchCan · #6 03-13-2005, 01:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I never really understoof the pot building concept with suited connectors in a large multiway pot. Am I building the pot for myself so that I'll have outs to chase gutshots and whatnot?

[/ QUOTE ]

No! You never (I hate that word) want to bet or raise in order to tie yourself to a pot. But you do want to bet or raise to tie your opponents to a pot. That way, when you hit your hand, they are still correct to call bets to the end, to draw to a hand that will still lose to yours if they hit.

Make sense?

toss · #7 03-13-2005, 01:49 AM

Ahhh I see. You sort of artificially build a large pot so they'll call with lesser hands when you hit your bigger hand. Kinda like manipulating the fundamental theory of poker.

Thanks Grunch.

Aaron W. · #8 03-13-2005, 03:01 AM

Would a flop raise with the OESD be any good here? MP3's cap seems pointless, meaning he could have all sorts of crap. The pot is huge (really huge), which makes it worth fighting for. Most people probably missed this flop completely, and it would be nice if a few of them folded (though if they all called, it's not bad, either). If you hit a pair, it might be the best hand (if you can avoid the wrong overcards). Not only do you have perfect relative position to make everyone call two cold, but you've also got absolute position, allowing you to possibly take a free card. It seems like one of those "play a marginal hand agressively in a big pot" situations to me.

Shillx · #9 03-13-2005, 03:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Would a flop raise with the OESD be any good here? MP3's cap seems pointless, meaning he could have all sorts of crap. The pot is huge (really huge), which makes it worth fighting for. Most people probably missed this flop completely, and it would be nice if a few of them folded (though if they all called, it's not bad, either). If you hit a pair, it might be the best hand (if you can avoid the wrong overcards). Not only do you have perfect relative position to make everyone call two cold, but you've also got absolute position, allowing you to possibly take a free card. It seems like one of those "play a marginal hand agressively in a big pot" situations to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you striving to knock hands out, wait until the turn to make your move (regardless of what it is). This is a risky play with just 8 sure outs, but the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] just might be the perfect card to try it with. Even if someone has an ace, we have 15 outs. If people don't have an ace, they will have a hard time calling 2 cold here.

By raising the flop, we will probably get coldcalled (or reraised) by just about everyone. Now a raise might not be a bad idea here, but it would mainly be for value with our OESD. If we get 6 people to the turn for 2 or 3 bets, we get a good deal of EV out of the situation.

Brad