Early in Stars nighttime 20+2

dimastermind · #1 09-06-2005, 05:32 AM

Anyone Have trouble with hero's line? No reads, first 10 hands. I wasn't sure if they had draws or a set or 2 pair, but I felt this was the best way to take advantage of the situation. Thoughts?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

Button (t1420)
SB (t3370)
BB (t1230)
UTG (t1430)
UTG+1 (t1530)
MP1 (t1700)
MP2 (t1470)
MP3 (t1180)
Hero (t1590)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP3 calls t20, Hero calls t20, Button calls t20, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t100) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets t60, MP3 calls t60, Hero raises to t220, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls t160, MP3 raises to t1160, Hero raises to t1570, BB calls t990 (All-In).

Turn: (t4040) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t4040) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t4040
Main Pot: t3580 (t3580), between BB, MP3 and Hero.
Pot 2: t460 (t460), between MP3 and Hero.

SixgunSam · #2 09-06-2005, 05:55 AM

Scenarios like this is why I hate to limp and play family pots. My rule of thumb when limping is that I want to flop something big before I really go after a pot (2 pair or better). With 5 people in this pot, I'm not willing to play for all my chips with TP/DK especially with all of this action before me. I'm not sure about the raise on the flop. In most cases, yea you would want to protect your hand, but here I would probably want to keep this pot small until I had a better idea of where I stood. You had a bet and a call in front of you. You have so little invested in this pot and a very moderate hand. I honestly wouldn't mind a call here and seeing what the action is on the turn. If another club comes on the turn, big deal, you're out 80 chips, but if you catch a J or another K you could really put on some pressure. Other than that, I would want to show it down for as little chips as possible.

arcticfox · #3 09-06-2005, 05:57 AM

I hate your line, you have top pair 3rd best kicker and you are calling someone else's all-in with 3 people showing strength on the flop. You are up against a set or 2 pair most of the time here, or at least someone with a K and a better kicker. If you won this hand because MP3 had 67 in the hole and BB had Ax clubs then you were incredibly lucky!

0evg0 · #4 09-06-2005, 08:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I hate your line, you have top pair 3rd best kicker and you are calling someone else's all-in with 3 people showing strength on the flop. You are up against a set or 2 pair most of the time here, or at least someone with a K and a better kicker. If you won this hand because MP3 had 67 in the hole and BB had Ax clubs then you were incredibly lucky!

[/ QUOTE ]Sounds about right, but I don't think most players would be slow-playing 67 on this flop. I think 66/77 is FAR more likely, but AXc sounds right for BB.

grandgnu · #5 09-06-2005, 08:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone Have trouble with hero's line? No reads, first 10 hands. I wasn't sure if they had draws or a set or 2 pair, but I felt this was the best way to take advantage of the situation. Thoughts?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

Button (t1420)
SB (t3370)
BB (t1230)
UTG (t1430)
UTG+1 (t1530)
MP1 (t1700)
MP2 (t1470)
MP3 (t1180)
Hero (t1590)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP3 calls t20, Hero calls t20, Button calls t20, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t100) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets t60, MP3 calls t60, Hero raises to t220, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls t160, MP3 raises to t1160, Hero raises to t1570, BB calls t990 (All-In).

Turn: (t4040) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t4040) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t4040
Main Pot: t3580 (t3580), between BB, MP3 and Hero.
Pot 2: t460 (t460), between MP3 and Hero.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mind your raise, but when you get re-raised THAT much, I'd give up the hand. With so many limpers, you're willing to put your whole tournament at risk with top pair, middling kicker and a possible straight and flush draw out against you as well. You're very likely behind or maybe 50/50 in the hand at this point, I'd wait for a better spot.

scal78 · #6 09-06-2005, 08:44 AM

For sure, someone has you beat at the flop. The raise is okay, to see where you stand on the hand, but I'm 99.9999% sure you're behind this after the re-raise.

I would have folded this pre-flop. There's no need to get involved in these types of multi-way pots.

bdohaney · #7 09-06-2005, 09:49 AM

I think that your problem here was limping into the flop with a marginal-decent hand. Limp with AA, sure, some of the time. But with KJ? I don't think so. I think you should have raised pre-flop a good 2-3XBB and seen where you stood. You may get reraised out of the pot, or you may take down the blinds and limps (which with KJ isn't a bad thing), but at least you will have a better idea of where you stand, and get the real crap hands (which can and will draw out to beat you) out of play.

dimastermind · #8 09-06-2005, 03:43 PM

Looking for more opinions of the hand the whole way through.

juris · #9 09-06-2005, 04:00 PM

Preflop limp not my favorite, but ok. I prefer raise here, then fold, then limp. The KJ is a hand that tends to lose money and is overplayed. It is weaker than it looks and that's even more important in a 5 way pot.

You hit top pair. Betting it on the flop makes sense, anything other than folding after that action this early is nuts. FOLD.

dimastermind · #10 09-06-2005, 04:02 PM

I like this reply a ton, At the time I made the raise, I thought I was just charging a flush draw or straight draw as usual. But I didn't realize that by raising on the flop, I make it more lucrative for them to shove. In retrospect, maybe calling the flop and seeing a turn card keeps the pot small and lets me know how to advance with the hand.
It should be said, however, that I'd like to gain chips early in this one and play aggressive poker.