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#11
08-09-2005, 04:44 PM
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Re: pokertracker numbers that everyone uses
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x/y/z x= VP$IP= what percentage of hands a player voluntarily puts money into the pot with- 16-17 i believe i considered the norm around here in full ring. [/ QUOTE ] Just to interject something, it is true that many people talk about having this type of number, but I think if you get your postflop game to a certain level that you would be losing money at these numbers, and would be better served higher. Random interjection complete. Barron Vangor Toth BarronVangorToth.com 
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#12
08-09-2005, 04:47 PM
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Re: pokertracker numbers that everyone uses
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what would you say if a guy was a 30/20? [/ QUOTE ] 30/20 is not uncommon, especially short. A few days ago I played in a six-handed where to my immediate left was a 85/20/2.5 and to his left was a 90/60/4. Everyone else was now playing screwed down or trapping since they knew 90/60/4 would auto-raise and cap. I should have got up or gotten luckier since 90/60/4 beat every one of my high pairs, including two pair of aces with Ax [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] ~ Rick
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#16
08-09-2005, 05:11 PM
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Re: pokertracker numbers that everyone uses
It depends on the player. I like some of the 30/20 (actually they are more like 35/25) guys in 5/10 that play on auto-pilot. They will liberally 3 bet UTG raises from tight aggressives like myself with completely dominated hands such as KJ & QJ. Then, when the king comes and I have AK or AA they will chip spew with their KJ. And if the board gets dangerous like KQT and I have AA, I can check to them and they will always bet it for me, so I do not lose bets when ahead and lose the minimum when they suckout. One thing you do have to do with the 35/25 guys behind you is stop raising with hands like A9o and 44, it is just a matter of adjusting. However, I do agree that some of the thinking LAGs are very hard to play against.
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#17
08-09-2005, 07:17 PM
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Re: pokertracker numbers that everyone uses
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AF is useless and will not converge like in 10k hands. I've seen total brainless maniacs with AF <1 and weak-tight rocks with AF>3. Also the way AF is calculated is pretty useless as it counts checks with intention of CR as something "passive". If someone check/calls flop and check/raises turn they would get low AF because they checked twice and raised once yet they may do it every single hand and are clearly more agressive than many others. [/ QUOTE ] Checks are not figured in agression factor calculations. In the situation you described, the player called once and raised once. They would have an AF of 1. Assuming they lead the river, that's a 1 bet + 1 raise / 1 call for an AF of 2 on that one hand. You may want to exclude preflop numbers for AF since a maniac who has a VPIP of 75 and PFR of 20 may actually have a low total aggression factor because the preflop calls skew the overall number. Plus, I think you already get an idea of their preflop aggression based on VPIP and PFR and including preflop numbers in their AF calculation is repetitive.
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#18
08-09-2005, 07:27 PM
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Re: pokertracker numbers that everyone uses
[ QUOTE ]
Also the way AF is calculated is pretty useless as it counts checks with intention of CR as something "passive". If someone check/calls flop and check/raises turn they would get low AF because they checked twice and raised once yet they may do it every single hand and are clearly more agressive than many others. [/ QUOTE ] Players who bet/fold frequently will also have high aggression numbers.
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#19
08-09-2005, 07:40 PM
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Re: pokertracker numbers that everyone uses
[ QUOTE ]
AF is useless and will not converge like in 10k hands... I've seen total brainless maniacs with AF <1 and weak-tight rocks with AF>3. [/ QUOTE ] This doesn't show that AF is "useless", just that you don't understand how to interpret it. Why would you expect a "weak-tight rock" to have an AF below 3? That wouldn't make sense. The meaning of "rock" is that you do very little calling. You mostly sit around and fold until you get the nuts and then bet and raise. This style is accurately described by a low vpip, a low went to showdown % (given his vpip) and a high AF.
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#20
08-09-2005, 08:20 PM
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Re: pokertracker numbers that everyone uses
I think daryn rules, but you know that if anybody other than him had posted this, 90% of the responses would have been exactly like this.
AF has always felt like something that I can judge far better from watching somebody play than a raw number. Agression is so situational, turning it into one number just reaks of gross oversimplification.
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