$1/2 NL quads on river...

bholdr · #1 10-13-2005, 08:10 PM

I don't remember all the specifics, but it went kinda like this:

I was in the BB with QT in a stars $1/2 NL game, and called a raise from a solid TAG in LP, limpers fold, and it's HU to the flop

QQA

i check, he bets 1/2 pot, i call- i have him on an ace

turn is a blank

i check, he bets 1/2 pot, i call (i know, shoulda raised here...)

pot was about $45 going to the river, i had about $170 left, he had about $120

river was the case Q (whooo-hoo-hoooo... nice)

I push (which is a massive overbet). my thinking is that it would be interpreted as an 'i had an ace, too, and i'm just gonna take a shot at the pot now that i know the kicker doesn't matter- hell, i'd call that move...' and he'd call expecting a split...

thoughts? should i have value bet (pot size) or tried to check-raise him all in instead?

Malachii · #2 10-13-2005, 08:19 PM

I'm a little unsure what my standard line should be here OOP with open trips like this. The problem with leading two streets is that if you don't slow down on the turn when he's called your flop bet he can be pretty sure you've got trips. Check/call lead turn maybe? Push seems alright, although it wouldn't surprise me if he folds.

bholdr · #3 10-13-2005, 08:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a little unsure what my standard line should be here OOP with open trips like this. The problem with leading two streets is that if you don't slow down on the turn when he's called your flop bet he can be pretty sure you've got trips. Check/call lead turn maybe? Push seems alright, although it wouldn't surprise me if he folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

i am also unsure... obviously.

I was waiting for a good spot to get a big check-raise in, but i also thought that he might just keep stabbing at it with his Ace... Every time i considered betting out or raising, i thought i'd just be screaming that i had the Q. There has got to be a better way to play this on the early streets. maybe lead 1/2 pot on the flop?

On the river, however, two thoughts led me to push:

A: if he has an ace, he will probably call- one just doesn't worry about quads, right? if it happens, it hapens, etc, and the way i played it, he's have to be a mind reader to suspect that i had the Q, and a big push into what looks like an obvious split pot is a standard/amatureish move...

B: If he doesn't have an ace, i'm not getting any more money from him by checking it, unless he tries a really dumb bluff- and he wasn't dumb. he would have no reason at all to call, or to bluff, for that matter.

...or is my thinking all screwed up? i am still something of a NL noob, esp at $1/2 (normally play $.50/1)

...(he did call with his AK, though.)

Komodo · #4 10-13-2005, 08:56 PM

Minimum bet on river, aiming for checkraise all-in!?

pokernicus · #5 10-13-2005, 09:36 PM

I think you played this perfectly on the river.

The fact that he fired twice makes it likely he has an Ace. And he can easily interpret your calling as saying that you have an Ace or a Queen. When the case Queen falls on fifth street, he probably thinks you are more likely to have an Ace (since Quads are the last thing people suspect). Also, if he is holding an Ace and there is one on the board, he is less likely to think that you have pocket Aces (giving you Aces full).

It's hard for him to lay down the third best possible hand when the top two are pretty unlikely. And no one likes to be bluffed out of a chopped pot, so even if there's a remote chance you're bluffing, he's probably psychologically inclined to call.

The only thing is that whenever someone does the check/call flop, check/call turn, push river, 95% of the time they have a monster hand. Still, it's hard for him to laydown any hand with an Ace.

bholdr · #6 10-13-2005, 11:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]

It's hard for him to lay down the third best possible hand when the top two are pretty unlikely. And no one likes to be bluffed out of a chopped pot, so even if there's a remote chance you're bluffing, he's probably psychologically inclined to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

my thoughts exactly... but the question is, will i make more from the times that he makes the call or pushes himself than i make by pushing myself?

i suppose that this situation is so rare that it doesn't really matter, though.

Rockatansky · #7 10-13-2005, 11:38 PM

Bet 3/4 pot and he'll call with his A-K.

bholdr · #8 10-14-2005, 12:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Bet 3/4 pot and he'll call with his A-K.

[/ QUOTE ]

river? flop? before or after a check? c'mon, i need more than that!

savman · #9 10-14-2005, 01:41 AM

any hand he is willing to call an all in with he will bet when checked to, then u give him a shot to a.) get more money in the pot and be more inclined to call b.) make a play at the pot. perfect spot for riv checkraise imo.

bholdr · #10 10-14-2005, 02:02 AM

very intresting reply... best yet. i will think on it before replying in detail:

[ QUOTE ]
any hand he is willing to call an all in with he will bet when checked to, then u give him a shot to a.) get more money in the pot and be more inclined to call b.) make a play at the pot. perfect spot for riv checkraise imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

for now, though: conversly, any hand that he would bet after being checked to, he'll call an all-in with- basicly, an ace... so it's a wash in that case... am i missing something? feels like i am...