Cardinals-Astros Matchups

[PhatTBoll]

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And nobody wants to manage agaisnt Tony just because of his track record.

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Easy there killer.

[Jim Kuhn]

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Hou has more veteran leaders though.

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What happened to Reggie Sanders, Larry Walker, Jim Edmonds and Albert Pujols? I don't think veteran leaders is a St Louis weakness.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
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Luckily they got some practice with an MVP candidate in Andruw Jones... the cardinals' biggest threat was Klesko and his 19 bombs.

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Hou has more veteran leaders though.

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What happened to Reggie Sanders, Larry Walker, Jim Edmonds and Albert Pujols? I don't think veteran leaders is a St Louis weakness.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
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Clemens, Pettitte, Bagwell, Biggio, Ausmus, Vizcaino, Palmeiro (probably doesn't count much). All of these guys are over 35 I believe, and have years of experience under their belts. Edmonds and Pujols? lol. I'll give you Sanders, Walker, and Izzy.

[Clarkmeister]

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Hou has more veteran leaders though.

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What happened to Reggie Sanders, Larry Walker, Jim Edmonds and Albert Pujols? I don't think veteran leaders is a St Louis weakness.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

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Clemens, Pettitte, Bagwell, Biggio, Ausmus, Vizcaino, Palmeiro (probably doesn't count much). All of these guys are over 35 I believe, and have years of experience under their belts. Edmonds and Pujols? lol. I'll give you Sanders, Walker, and Izzy.

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That's true. Edmonds hasn't been around that long, nor been very successful.

[Clarkmeister]

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HOU has a pretty nice edge in starting pitching

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I submit it's a marginal edge at best.

[craig r]

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HOU has a pretty nice edge in starting pitching

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I submit it's a marginal edge at best.

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Even if it was more than marginal, it takes much more than great pitching. I want houston to win (my hometown), but this idea that great pitching wins is overrated. And even if HOU has great pitching, they aren't playing a team with crap pitching. What HOU lacks in hitting, they don't make up for with pitching. But, what STL lacks in pitching (compared to HOU) they make up for in hitting.

craig

[andyfox]

Vizcaino has much more experience than Pujols. That's why he's making so much more money than Albert and is one of the leading contenders for MVP.

[SammyKid11]

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STL's bullpen is a better than Houston's.

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I just want to clear this up, once and for all. STL's bullpen is not better than Houston's. Let's take the five relievers used by the Astros in the NLDS (and the five likely to be used in the NLCS)...those five are:

Brad Lidge
Dan Wheeler
Chad Qualls
Mike Gallo
Russ Springer

Their collective regular season ERA is 2.65.

Now let's look at the five NLDS relievers in the St. Louis bullpen. Those are: Jason Isringhausen, Randy Flores, Julian Tavarez, Brad Thomson, and Cal Eldred (you've forgotten, Reyes is gone...out for playoffs, not even on the postseason roster...unless he's gotten better, I haven't heard about it, and STL adds him into the NLCS roster).

Their collective regular season ERA is 3.14.

An ERA gap of .59 is not made up for by your assertion that STL's fifth starter makes such a better reliever than Wandy Rodriguez does. Even if I go ahead and grant that he does, considering the lack of likelihood that a guy like Wandy even sees any meaningful innings with the Astros starters' ability to go deep AND the pen around him.....PLUS considering that in the late games of the series, Backe and Pettitte will be available for relief (and even Oswalt in Game 7)...I think any perceived difference in the fifth-starter-as-reliever role is pretty well diminished, and to determine the better bullpen, you just buckle down and look at ERA.

I'll take the 2.65 over the 3.14 any day of the week...especially seeing how brilliantly the 2.65 performed in the ATL series.

Anyway, just wanted to clear up any rumors of the Cardinals having a better bullpen than the Astros.

This should frame the debate. There are four major areas one must look at in determining who has a better chance in a series. Considering the players likely to play in said series, who has better
a) starting pitching
b) bullpen
c) hitting
d) fielding

I would contend that the Astros have a slight advantage in both A and B, the Cardinals have a significant advantage in C, and D is pretty much even (though I haven't done my homework on that, I just remember hearing both teams' fielding moderately praised...is one side clearly better fielding the baseball?).

Obviously, lots of other factors one could look at...hitting with men on base, baserunning, coaching, home field advantage, health/rest of players, etc.

But in those four areas, I think the slight edge in starting and bullpen pitching puts the Astros almost even with a team whose lineup is clearly better. I make the series about 52.5-47.5 in STL's favor -- therefore, I like most of the lines I've seen on the series for a bet on Houston.

[rwperu34]

I am neither for Houston or St Louis. Here is my take.

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Starting pitching:
Carpenter is the only "ace" quality pitcher on the Cards' staff, and he is unproven in the playoffs. Morris is close to this level and he seems to be improving as of late. The Astro's set of aces has the upper hand on the Card's pair.

(Edge: Astros)


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I think it's funny you forget to mention arguably the Cardinals best pitcher, Mark Mulder. He is also an ace. While the three aces of Houston are CLEARLY better than the three aces of St. Louis, you fail to take into account the beating St Louis hands Houston at 4th starter with Suppan vs Backe. Overall, the edge still goes to Houston, but it is not nearly as big as you portray.

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Bullpen:
Houston's bullpen is much improved this year. Qualls and Wheeler have emerged this season to provide dependable setup work to get to Lidge. Outside of Isringhausen the Card's bullpen is quite inconsistent.

(Edge: Astros)


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To say the St. Louis is inconsistent is just plain wrong. They've got a front line closer in Isringhausen, they've got quality set up men in Julian Tavarez and Al Reyas (2.12 ERA 0.93 WHIP), and they've got a quality lefty in Ray King. I don't trust Mike Galo as the lone lefty out of the Houston pen. Again, I'm going to agree with you that Houston has the edge, but it's not nearly as big as you make out. The real difference is that Lidge is so much better than any other pitcher on either staff. After the closers, St. Louis is better.

Offense

I'm not going to rate every position, but the offense as a whole. Even without Scott Rolen, the Cardinals have a HUGE edge offensively. I don't think anyone will argue since St. Louis scored 111 more runs during the regular season.

Defense

Defense is an often overlooked aspect of the game, yet still very important. St. Louis has a big edge in CF and RF with Edmonds and Walker, and Houston has a big edge at short with Everett. Everywhere else is pretty close, with the exception of THE MOST IMPORTANT DEFENSIVE POSTITION, and one you convienently left out of your analysis. Catcher. Ausmus was great defensively in his youth, and is still pretty darn good. But Yadir Molina might be the best defensive catcher to come along since Ivan Rodriguez, and is CLEARLY the best in the game right now. Big defensive advantage to the Cards.

Overall, the Cardinals have to be a pretty good favorite. Lucky for you Astro fans, anything can happen in a seven game series.