AK post flop

What move here?

30/60 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 15187846) - Fri Aug 26 20:03:44 EDT 2005
Table Table 39806 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 3: uclabruinz (730)
Seat 4: Enzo614 (800)
Seat 5: Braddm20 (995)
Seat 6: Count_deMonE (790)
Seat 7: rosen_rosen (600)
Seat 9: cbakes (2985)
Seat 10: ponzi1 (1100)
Braddm20 posts small blind (15)
Count_deMonE posts big blind (30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to uclabruinz [ As, Kd ]
rosen_rosen calls (30)
cbakes calls (30)
ponzi1 calls (30)
uclabruinz raises (125) to 125
Enzo614 raises (300) to 300
Braddm20 folds.
Count_deMonE folds.
rosen_rosen folds.
cbakes folds.
ponzi1 folds.
uclabruinz calls (175)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 4s, 2h, 9c ]
uclabruinz.....

Post deleted by citanul

[lastchance]

Well, I think your biggest mistake was calling nearly half your stack preflop.

Getting here, I think you need to shove this, but preflop action should have been either push/fold. If you call, you have to know that the rest of your chips are going in on any flop.

You think I should have laid this down pre-flop with those pot odds?

[cha59]

I like pushing after the reraise preflop instead of calling.

I dont like laying it down because youre only in really bad shape against AA and KK. You'll get hands to fold that you dont want to play against with an unfavorable flop and you get to see the turn and river if you get called.

The problem with the call is because of the situations you get in when the flop misses you (which happens most of the time).

[Lori]

[ QUOTE ]
You think I should have laid this down pre-flop with those pot odds?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have read two threads today that you participated in and you mentioned pot odds in both of them.
I believe you may be thinking about SNGs the wrong way.

If you stick your money in to hit a flush draw, you will lose two tournaments out of three, whatever the pot odds.
Doubling your stack does not double your EV except for in a few specific situations.

Can I recommend you play around with the ICM (See FAQ for details) and see the effect of various things happening (Start with someone doubling through first hand, and then invent some of your own.)

Edited: Blatantly stupid error by me removed.

Lori

[valenzuela]

What were u thinking when u called the preflop bet?? not a sarcastic question..what were u thinking? You need to have a plan other than hoping for an ace or a king.

[ QUOTE ]
What were u thinking when u called the preflop bet?? not a sarcastic question..what were u thinking? You need to have a plan other than hoping for an ace or a king.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thinking was that I would win a huge pot if A or K shows up on the flop, and if it doesn't I still have 400+ chips with which to work, which isn't fun but is till enough to get something done. Folding would have left me with 600 instead of 430, but I felt that given the pot odds I had to take a look at the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You think I should have laid this down pre-flop with those pot odds?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have read two threads today that you participated in and you mentioned pot odds in both of them.
I believe you may be thinking about SNGs the wrong way.

If you stick your money in to hit a flush draw, you will lose two tournaments out of three, whatever the pot odds.
Doubling your stack does not double your EV except for in a few specific situations.

Can I recommend you play around with the ICM (See FAQ for details) and see the effect of various things happening (Start with someone doubling through first hand, and then invent some of your own.)

Edited: Blatantly stupid error by me removed.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Lori, I really appreciate the suggestion and do plan to study ICM more in the near future. Are you suggesting that pot odds are irrelevant at all times in SNGs? In my book they of course continue to play an important role, although only in certain situations and always taking into account the more important areas of context.

Lori, how would you have played this hand pre-flop?

[45suited]

1) Reads (remember those?) would be nice. Is this guy doing this with anything other than AA or KK?

2) Pre-flop has to be push or fold. Calling is simply not an option in my mind.

IMO, your initial raise wasn't large enough anyway, after 3 limpers in level two. I would have either:

a) raised to t200 straight away, or

b) open pushed pre-flop. Sounds crazy initially, but you'd be adding 18% to your stack at minimal risk.

(Now when I say "minimal" risk, I mean it's not really any more risky than your line in that you're losing your shirt to KK or AA anyway. So you might bust, but the times you're not against AA or KK, you have given yourself significant FE and you've guaranteed that you will see all 5 cards.) Surely, open pushing pre-flop is better than weakly raising and then being lost on the flop when you whiff.