my experiment-Your Opinions Please

sng-sam · #1 08-01-2005, 05:50 PM

Andathar's push fold philosophy got me thinking. What are the benefits to a hand like AA or KK during level 1 or 2? What are the dangers/cons of these hands at early levels. So I've come up with the following. This is all based on my limited (`500 11s 250 22s and 50 30s)experience at low buy in SNG's on party. What I THINK I know....

1. If I raise 3x BB (per Aleo's guide) I may very well get called by 3-5 donkeys one of whom gets all my chips cause he flopped 2 pair with Ax sooted.

2. Or...It folds all the way around and I pick up a t25 pot YIPEE!

So I started thinking. If raising is done to profit and to thin the field why not raise my aces and kings BIG and let someone who thinks that I'M the donkey a: come over the top or B: call with AJ etc.

Since I've started this I've been getting paid off on my big hands a lot more in the early levels. When I raise like this and everyone folds and I make t25 I'm not really worried cause it seems better than getting busted by Ax and it's likely that it was going to happen anyway.

Some of these statements may contradict each other but in my warped mind they are right at home.

SAM

p.s. I realize that this is not an earth shattering revelation so please turn the flame throwers down to low. And actually SHARE your experiences with this concept.

tigerite · #2 08-01-2005, 05:52 PM

You're being results-oriented with the Ax hitting two pair and busting you, it simply doesn't happen as often as you think. I got all in on the turn on a 2 2 3 8 board with QQ, he had A3, whoopie river a 3, I just laughed. Seriously, laughed, what else can you do? It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. It's one tourney lost to one bad beat. When you play hundreds it fades into insignificance, honestly.

sng-sam · #3 08-01-2005, 05:55 PM

well ...that...was....an opinion alright.

how bout some more.

SAM

tigerite · #4 08-01-2005, 05:58 PM

But you are, seriously. Pushing is ridiculous, unless you do it within the first hand or two when people maybe, just maybe think you're a maniac, and call with trash. You need to extract value from your big hands because they simply don't come around often enough in an SNG. What's to stop the donks calling with Ax suited and hitting the two pair when you push? Believe me, I've seen it happen.

jon462 · #5 08-01-2005, 07:08 PM

I dont udnerstand how Ax suited can flop 2 pair and stack you. If you have AA, you have him slaughtered - if you have KK or QQ you should be able to get away from it easily.

TheSalche · #6 08-01-2005, 07:39 PM

frankly, raising it 3x the BB at levels 1 and 2 of the SnG doesn't do anything ... no point in raising at least 4x because you wont even push out the blinds for the most part

i like to pop it up to 75 and 120 or so on the first two levels ... the more limpers the higher i raise ... if you take down a small pot things could be worse and you're starting the foundation for a table image, and if you get called you're most likely a HUGE favorite to win the hand ... with kings if an ace comes, pull a HOH continuation bet and if you meet resistance, get rid of em ... you will live to see another day

Freudian · #7 08-01-2005, 07:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]

1. If I raise 3x BB (per Aleo's guide) I may very well get called by 3-5 donkeys one of whom gets all my chips cause he flopped 2 pair with Ax sooted.

2. Or...It folds all the way around and I pick up a t25 pot YIPEE!

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a middle ground between these options.

Personally I raise 5xBB or so in level 1 unless there are many good players. If there are many good players I raise 3xBB. In level 2 I usually standardraise with every raising hand.

I don't mind callers though. Sure sometimes they outflop me, but more often than not they don't.

sng-sam · #8 08-01-2005, 07:51 PM

I assumed that you would be able to imagine a scenario where big cards get out flopped. But...ok he has K9 and I have AA he flops 2 pair. there discuss it now.

SAM

TheSalche · #9 08-01-2005, 07:53 PM

you're probably fuqed ... if you put in a good raise the majority of the time and you only get 1 or 2 callers, the chances of either of them flopping two pair is still pretty slim ... don't forget you can still redraw if the board pairs (but not one of their cards obviously)