smart fold? or should I have called?

[sailor]

Im in mp with JJ. ep limps in ( just arrived at the table and I dont know how he plays). emp calls (will call lots of hands and fold after the flop). I call. sb raises (sb is a complete maniac). ep calls. emp calls. I call.

Flop is 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

ep checks. emp checks. I bet. Sb raises. ep calls. Emp folds. I raise. sb caps. ep calls. I call.

turn 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

ep checks. I bet. sb raises. ep calls. I raise. sb caps. ep calls. I call.

river 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

ep checks. I check. Sb bets. ep raises. I fold. sb raises. ep caps. sb calls.

ep shows A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for a big nothing
sb shows 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for two pairs and wins the pot.

was I outplayed, or was my fold smart given the play of ep?

[sthief09]

- raise PF. this is a no brainer and you won't find a single person on this site who condones limping with JJ
- ugh. it's pretty certain EP has got a flush. he kept cold calling, then came alive on the river. unless he's a complete maniac, you're beat. even if you had called, you would've ended up folding after it got capped.

it sucks when you give maniacs too much credit, but I think you played this well post flop.

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
- raise PF. this is a no brainer and you won't find a single person on this site who condones limping with JJ


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, raise here. But regarding the second part of this statement.

[sailor]

- raise PF. this is a no brainer and you won't find a single person on this site who condones limping with JJ.

Really? Why? Im new to poker. Ive only been playing for about 40 hours and this is my first post on the forum.

I do know there is a 57% chance that an overcard will flop and only a 10% chance of hitting my set. Why raise? I know people shouldnt call 2 bets cold with nothing but I see people call 2 or 3 bets with any face card and a small card all day long. I certainly dont think ill chase away anyone holding an Ace King or Queen. Im new to this game so Im playing the fifty cent dollar tables at party poker. I started with $95. Ive played about 40 hours. Ive been as low as $76 and as high as $151. Im at $118 now. maybe Im just being to cautious but it seems like JJ at these limits where people call every time they have one face card is not smart. Like I said Ive only played 40 hours so Im not sure how much validity my opinion has but I have to fold JJ most of the time because of overcards on the flop.

[sthief09]

yeah, I've read that thread... he did it because it was a loose 30-60 game. I should have added "in this game" after my statement. I agree with Mason's logic there, but he says somewhere in there that when your opponents are terrible, you have to raise for it

[sthief09]

wow, you are really lucky... it took me almost 2 years to find this site [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

the reason you raise with JJ is value. just because you will often flop an overcard and no J doesn't mean you won't win. JJ is sooooooo much better than the hands you'll be called with that you actually "make money" when these much worse hands call your raise. and the fact that you will flop an overcard 57% of the time is more reason to raise. you raise to clear out the field, so there is less of a chance that the overcard pairs someone's hand.

by the way, what limit is this?

[Sundevils21]

Some of the reasons to raise preflop:

If there are 5 players to see the flop, you definatly have better than a one in five chance of winning when its all said and done.

A hand like A 10 or A 9, are definatly hands players are willing to call with

There could be smaller pocket pairs or suited connectors out there, which you dominate.

When the flop doesn't come with an overcard to your Jacks, you usually really really like the flop.

One of the problems, like you said, is it's sometimes tough to get rid of when only one overcard is showing on the board. But if a single Ace or King shows, usually you will be able to figure out if someone has one of them. Just my 2 cents. I also always 3 bet with JJ.

Good luck in the future. I'm reletivly new here as well. Keep posting hands like these and asking questions, there is a lot of knowledge here. I've learned a lot.

[sailor]

like i said earlier its 50cent dollar limits. Im learning right now. ive played with friends but I decided to take this game seriously so right now im reading playing reading playing etc... I found this website in the back of john feeneys book "inside the poker mind."

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
- raise PF. this is a no brainer and you won't find a single person on this site who condones limping with JJ.

Really? Why? Im new to poker. Ive only been playing for about 40 hours and this is my first post on the forum.


[/ QUOTE ]

Just take our word for it. Not convinced? OK.

You raise because
1. You eliminate opponents which increases your chances to win the pot.
2. Worse hands will call your raise which is making you money in the long run.
3. You have the 4th best starting hand possible, which means it's very likely you have the best hand.
4. An overcard on the flop doesn't always mean you are beat.

[joker122]

At .5/1 you are making money hand over fist by raising with JJ. Also, you might find the "micro limit" forum more helpful to your game right now.