Very surprising reraise at the river

Atropos · #1 08-10-2004, 03:16 AM

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP2 posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 (poster) checks, Hero calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 folds, MP2 folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

The pot seems big enough that I usually have to call this down. But I also noticed that if these usual party fishes suddenly reraise me, they nearly always have hit two pair//trips at the river, but well I said nearly always.
So should I call this down? Had no valuable read on UTG, only knew he played somewhat bad, but not as bad as the typical party fish. I ruled out that he could have got a straight, the only possibility would be Trips or two pair or Ace with better kicker, or Ace with worse kicker. Should I call this down?

Riposte · #2 08-10-2004, 03:28 AM

That sucks. The river check-raise scares me. I would fold.

Atropos · #3 08-10-2004, 04:20 AM

Yep I wanted to fold too, but thought the pot was big enough to warrrant calling. But is this really an auto-fold?? OK I only have Top Pair with semi-fair Kicker, but the board seems totally unthreatening, only rivered two pair//rivered set//bluff seem to make sense.
So would you always fold TPGK to a check-raise on the river?

cartoonsoldier · #4 08-10-2004, 04:25 AM

There is a OESD completed by the 7 on the river.

Atropos · #5 08-10-2004, 04:37 AM

Yep you are right, he could have had T9 as well, I thought that this would be a nearly automatic raise but I forgot that these people dont play like me. Calling the raise is still not a clear error I think, sometimes they bluff at the river and I get fairly ok odds. But now I think about the possibilty of checking behind him. I dont have very much,a weaker Ace would probably call me, but since my kicker is not so good and I have to fear a better ace I now think I should have checked this down at the river.

cartoonsoldier · #6 08-10-2004, 04:42 AM

I main thing to see here is that he check-called all the way till the river. People will do that mainly 77, 9T, KQ, TQ, TK (IMO). I would rule out other hands (but you never know).

I river raise will could very well represent a busted straight draw and I think you have to call.

WillMagic · #7 08-10-2004, 04:43 AM

You played it fine. If you win every value bet you make on the end, then you aren't value-betting enough. Checking isn't horrible, but if I were in your shoes, I would think that he probably has middle pair or something garbage-y like that and bet, just as you did. This is .5/1, after all. And folding to the check-raise would be beyond awful.

WillMagic · #8 08-10-2004, 04:40 AM

I love the smell of weak-tight folds in the morning.

Will

chief444 · #9 08-10-2004, 07:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
That sucks. The river check-raise scares me. I would fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
I would check/raise a lot against you if I saw you lay a couple of hands down in decent pots. That would really suck.

Atropos · #10 08-10-2004, 07:42 AM

@chief444:
Even if that statement didnt came out of my mouth, I think I have to disagree with you [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
You said "If I saw you...", you really tell me the normal party fish notices something like me folding to a check-raise on the river?? How many times do you see a check-raise on the river, maybe 1 in 5000 hands? I would not have any problem with someone checkraising me on the river all the time, because I normally have quite a good hand, if I have something I call down of course, but I think I will not call down anymore if I have these strange holdings...
I understand the logic of the "big pots - dont fold" rule, but I dont see some math it could be based on.