hand v xorbie

starvs · #1 10-25-2005, 01:04 PM

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Normally I agree with this. Against Xorbie, though, I think you really have to think about your lines here. What is Hero's hand range for re-raising OOP? If he knows you're tight, he might give you AA-JJ as a hand range. In which case, you're very likely going to face a raise on this flop or a call to take away on turn. You would from me.

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you would try to take this away with a delayed bluff or something when half the time (based on the range you gave) you'll be looking at a big set?

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I didn't get that either. TWP, are you saying that if you had a AA or QQ here you would often check, so when 2Paul2 bets here you assume he does not have a set, thus can take it away later?

TheWorstPlayer · #2 10-25-2005, 03:39 PM

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Normally I agree with this. Against Xorbie, though, I think you really have to think about your lines here. What is Hero's hand range for re-raising OOP? If he knows you're tight, he might give you AA-JJ as a hand range. In which case, you're very likely going to face a raise on this flop or a call to take away on turn. You would from me.

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you would try to take this away with a delayed bluff or something when half the time (based on the range you gave) you'll be looking at a big set?

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I didn't get that either. TWP, are you saying that if you had a AA or QQ here you would often check, so when 2Paul2 bets here you assume he does not have a set, thus can take it away later?

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He might not bet AA/QQ. But he also might not bet KK/JJ. But basically, there are more combinations of KK/JJ than they are of AA/QQ. And even if we add AK to his range, he can't love the queen on the flop since he is now behind QQ and AQ. So, especially if I have a gutshot or a backdoor flush draw or whatever, I am likely to call the flop in position and then try to steal on the turn if he checks.

Mackerel · #3 10-25-2005, 03:49 PM

Hey TWP,

Don't mean to highjack the thread, but a question for you. Do you get CR'd a lot? Against players who are as aggro as you, I love to CR 'em BIG regularly, and I'm finding more people taking that approach with me when I'm LAGing it up lately. Have you found a standard line you like against this, or do you just slow down when this starts happening? Usually, I've found myself forced to slow down some and try to get them to pull their big CR when I'm strong enough to get it in the middle (which might not be all that particularly strong, depending on how often they're doing it). Just curious.

TheWorstPlayer · #4 10-25-2005, 03:56 PM

No. People do not check/raise often. And when a player starts to check/raise me I adjust against him. I become more likely to take free cards. I become more likely 3-bet over his check/raises. Obviously you can't do the same thing that you were doing once he adjusts to you. I usually give up the first one or two times he check/raises and then once I see that his check/raise frequency has actually changed and it is not just that he was getting a run of cards then I adjust my betting frequency against him.

2PAUL2 · #5 10-25-2005, 05:04 PM

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Against a tight re-raiser I am 3-betting AA almost all of the time

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im not a tight reraiser.

paul

TheWorstPlayer · #6 10-25-2005, 05:08 PM

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Against a tight re-raiser I am 3-betting AA almost all of the time

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im not a tight reraiser.

paul

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You should be.

2PAUL2 · #7 10-25-2005, 05:26 PM

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You should be.

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against xorbie opening from the co...
[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

paul

TheWorstPlayer · #8 10-25-2005, 05:29 PM

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You should be.

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against xorbie opening from the co...
[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

paul

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Fair point. But I actually think it is even more imperative to re-raise in this case since you will have a wider hand. Against a tight re-raiser I will 3-bet often because they have a tight range and it is strong and they aren't likely to fold it (even though they should at times). But it is okay to call to trap because you have a decent sense of their range. But against a looser raiser, I think you MUST 3-bet because otherwise when the flop comes 567 you could easily lose your stack to a trickily re-raised 55. Whereas against the tight re-raiser you know you are ahead.

xorbie · #9 10-25-2005, 07:04 PM

I don't 3-bet often, and I think it would sort of suck in this situation. My hand is super well concealed, if flop comes all unders I am taking his stack, I like that. I really don't think I can find a hand in my databse where I 3-bet against anyone but a total donk, or if I've been playing uber maniac. People just aren't that willing to burn money post flop.