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  #1  
Old 11-23-2004, 06:40 PM
Vanquish Vanquish is offline
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Default All-in Rules Dispute

Okay, this is dumb, yes, but I have a player in a home-game who doesn't like to show his cards when he's all-in unless he wins the pot. Even if he initiated the action by going all-in, he'll get called, end up losing and just plain old not show his cards.

I know there is a rule that says when you are all-in and there is no further side action that you have to flip your cards. I can't seem to find a refernce in anything "official" to back this up. I checked Robert's Rules and other stuff at HomePokerTourney.com but I can't seem to find it. When I call him out on it I'd like to have something official to point to beyond the rule that if you were the last to show aggression you have to show your hand first.

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 11-23-2004, 07:17 PM
Johnny5 Johnny5 is offline
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Default Re: All-in Rules Dispute

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, this is dumb, yes, but I have a player in a home-game who doesn't like to show his cards when he's all-in unless he wins the pot. Even if he initiated the action by going all-in, he'll get called, end up losing and just plain old not show his cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Vanquish,

This guy sounds like a real winner!

If he initiates the last action, he has to show his cards to win the pot, if he doesn't, how can he win?? Am I missing something here?

Roberts Rules -

Showdown:

#1. "A player must show all cards in the hand face-up on the table to win any part of the pot."

#7. "If everyone checks (or is all-in) on the final betting round, the player who acted first is the first to show the hand."

Tournament section:

#28. "All hands will be turned faceup whenever a player is all-in and betting action is complete."

If its a home game, why not just make it a rule?

J5
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  #3  
Old 11-23-2004, 07:28 PM
JPotMaster JPotMaster is offline
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Default Re: All-in Rules Dispute

http://www.harrahs.com/wsop/rules.html
Rule #10 WSOP Official Rules

http://www.homepokertourney.com/rules_poker.htm
Check this one out, has a bunch of different rule books

However, this all comes down to the fact that this is played at a home game. The house can choose not to follow these rule books. Also, was it NL tournament or ring game. It's common not to have to show in a ring game. They don't show the cards at Poker Stars unless it's in a tournament
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  #4  
Old 11-23-2004, 08:26 PM
Scotty O Scotty O is offline
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Default Re: All-in Rules Dispute

Well... this kind of depends. In Tourney play, you must show your cards. In a cash game, this is where it gets a little tricky. If you go to showdown, you can request the dealer to show the cards of the player who mucked. However, I would assume you are playing "cards speak" and if the player mistakenly threw his winner away in error, the he will win the pot. If the player requesting to see the hand, must declare to the dealer that his hand is dead prior to show (this is down when the dealer taps his cards in the muck).

For the most extentive list of rules, visit The Coach (Robert Ciaffone)
http://www.diamondcs.net/~thecoach/RobsPkrRules5.htm
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  #5  
Old 11-24-2004, 11:53 AM
SheridanCat SheridanCat is offline
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Default Re: All-in Rules Dispute

In tournaments, yes, cards are up when both players are all-in. In a ring game, this will be room dependent. Often when I play NL the dealer will say "flip em up" when the players are all-in with no more action. I rightly have pointed out that I don't have to turn it up, and have been told I'm correct. Obviously, I will table my hand to win the pot - that's never in dispute.

So, set a rule. The cool thing about running a ring game is that you're the house and the floor all wrapped up in a tidy bundle. If the players don't like the rules, they can play elsewhere.

I should point out that the Tournament Directors Association rule on face-up all-in situations is clear. But this applies only to tournament poker.

Regards,

T
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  #6  
Old 11-24-2004, 02:08 PM
smoore smoore is offline
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Default Re: All-in Rules Dispute

one way to make him show his cards if he initiated the all-in in a ring game is to refuse to turn your hand over until he does. it's his turn, he can either flip them or muck them.
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  #7  
Old 11-24-2004, 10:56 PM
LetsRock LetsRock is offline
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Default Re: All-in Rules Dispute

I don't hink there is any rule that says you have to show your hand. Maybe some tournements have them written as special rules, but as far as I'm concerned he has the right to not show his cards.

The opening of hands for an all-in situation is strictly for the entertainment of everyone else.

If you don't show your hand you can't take the pot, If he's sure that he doesn't want the pot, let him keep them private. He's the only one who may lose something.

The only provision that requires someone to expose their hand is if collusion is supected. Other than that, no show, no win.
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  #8  
Old 11-25-2004, 02:08 AM
Scotty O Scotty O is offline
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Default Re: All-in Rules Dispute

I it the right of the other players to have a look at his hand. As long as this is not abused, there is no reason for a player to request the dealer to show. They can make his hand dead as I stated above.
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