How I Became a Christian (LONG)

[bocablkr]

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What is the EV of non belief? If you are right, so what? If you are wrong, you are screwed. So you will lose the most, and gain the least by non belief, and gain the most and lose the least by belief. (Hoping I just talked my way out of trouble with God for spending waaayy more time reading Sklansky than the Bible.) I know this argument leaves a bad taste the mouths of some, but hey...it is what it is, what good is complaining going to do you...God can be harsh. Deal.


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I always love this one - I should believe because it is +EV.
You should make your decisions based on the available evidence not because it is a no win situation to not believe. Once again, it proves the courage that an atheist has because he takes his position EVEN though it is -EV (in your words).

[David Sklansky]

"What is the EV of non belief? If you are right, so what? If you are wrong, you are screwed. So you will lose the most, and gain the least by non belief, and gain the most and lose the least by belief"

Although I have decided to stay away from most God arguments nowadays, the nature of this website forces me to refute this particular one. And I should note that many religious people including Not Ready agree with me here.

The notion that you are getting high pot odds when you profess belief that Jesus is the son of God is just wrong. The two main reasons are:

1. It is not clear that the upside is way more than the downside. If, for instance, the God that Jews believe, in is the true one, and if he is angry at those who believe in a fraudelant messiah, we're talking reverse implied odds here.

2. A professed belief based on high pot odds is not a real belief and your hand even if it is the best one, will be declared dead, and thus can't win the pot.

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It's a choice and therefore a sin like any other sin.

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I've already responded to this, when I first asked. I then responded to the response I knew you were going to give. I think that makes two responses forthcoming (I've lost count). Homosexuality is most definitely not a choice. I understand that casts serious doubt over large parts of the bible, and therefore cannot be true by definition, but it's true. You completely sidestepped that entire post, which was totally intellectually dishonest.

Like I said, sexuality is a spectrum. Some people can be completely turned off by the same sex. Some people have ambiguous feelings about whether or not they could love someone of the same sex. These feelings are not choices, and I KNOW this, to a much larger extent than you 'know' that there are angels and demons and a fiery place where a red man with horns and a pitchfork dwells.

Oh, and your comments on how you can believe that Christianity is false. You've already implied that if it ever is proven false it would be because god wanted it to be proven false. I understand you're going to talk your way out of it by saying "I said god, not the christian god" but since god, by your definition, is the christian god, there's really no way out of your position other than more intellectual (and by saying intellectual I'm giving you more credit than you deserve) dishonesty. You're a complete joke. When I first started reading your posts I thought you were doing a satirical mockery of christians because that's what you came across as doing. That people like you actually exist scares me, as it's the mindset of people like you that crash planes into buildings and cut the hands off of innocent people (a la Christopher Columbus, who we should ALL celebrate). I agree that you should be ignored, as you are completely ignoring us as well as logic.

[NotReady]

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Homosexuality is most definitely not a choice


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The propensity may or may not be. The decision to engage in it most definitely is.

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You're a complete joke


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Your logic is impeccable, your reasoning superb and your evidence irrefutable.

[Indiana]

Jeff,

Many people like you come to Christ because their lives are in disarray. These people are usually the "best" christians in the church for a while because they find that their new faith in God helps them to wash away their previous problems. You may find yourself volunteering in a homeless shelter, hospital outreach, mission trips, all very good stuff. The problem with all of this is that you have freely accepted Christ without going through the "fear and trembling" salvation process that the Bible discusses. What happens as a result is that your emotional connection to the religion will grow weak and you may grow tired of the whole christianity thing. Most humans are total pieces of crap and you may look around and realize that the people that you looked up to as good christian role models are not such good people after all.

Why am I saying all of this? Because I want you to understand that in order to really commit yourself to Christ in a long-lasting way you must think, yes think, about what being a chrisitan means to you so that when you get tired of the religious game and the fancy sermons that generate million dollar salaries for these guys you see on tv, you will have a grounding that helps you overcome these human obstacles in religion. Get a firm grounding in the Bible and understand the core message of Christ. Believe in christianity because it is the only logical religion and because of what Jesus did and why he came to earth. You learn these things from the bible and by thinking deeply about what you want your life to be, you dont learn them by jumping onto the relgious fad or the church game.

Oh yeah, and don't listen to a bunch of smart people like David Sk. They are simply brainiacs who are religiously and spiritually lazy and are using their strong minds to come up with reasons why they should sleep in sunday morning.

Indy

Well I, as well as about 10 other people here, have used logic to come to the conclusion that you are a joke. I'm pretty sure you're the only one here that hasn't used logic to prove a point. If you'd like to have a poll on the issue on whether or not I've used logic I'd me more than happy to.

Oh yeah, there is a difference between homosexuality and having sex with someone of the same sex. I have female friends that have slept with many other females, but could never love one. Christians say 'homosexuality is a choice and wrong,' which is 100% bullshit. Of course physically engaging in sex is a choice, which is just another way of skirting around the issue. Are you claiming it's ok for a male to love another male? That's heresy! Sounds to me like you're saying that's okay, but it's not okay to physically show that love, which is sadistic, to say the least. Unless you think it's wrong for a guy to love a guy, which would make you seem like a jerkface, since you've admitted it's not a choice. That would be like saying "it's immoral to be black." Or are are you saying "it's okay to be born a certain way, just don't act like you were born that way?"

[RxForMoreCowbell]

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Oh yeah, and don't listen to a bunch of smart people like David Sk. They are simply brainiacs who are religiously and spiritually lazy and are using their strong minds to come up with reasons why they should sleep in sunday morning.

Indy

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What you've said here is the thing that frustrates me most as a non-believer. If you think any of the atheists/agnostics in here are "lazy" and don't believe because we aren't willing to put in time or effort, you either haven't read any of what we say, or you are an idiot.

[chezlaw]

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So what possible evidence could persuade you that christianity is wrong?


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Prove the falsity of the documents. Show errors in the Bible.

Since it's falsifiable and chance isn't that makes Christianity more scientific than evolution.

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Give an example of how the bible can be tested to show errors. What could possibly convince you that the bible is fictional?

I take it you no longer believe that the bible makes any claims about my beliefs and have withdraw your claim that I'm in denial. Is that correct?

Does your bible claim that I will be condemned for not believing?

chez

[Jeff V]

Rx did I mention you have my favorite name on 2+2?

I don't think the blanket statements work well either way.

[RxForMoreCowbell]

Just to clear it up my post wasn't against anything you said, I was showing my disgust in the disrespect Indy showed towards non-believers. I don't think any reasonable person who has taken the time to read our posts would hold his view.

And thanks, Christopher Walken rules.