Common situation on turn: TP raised when 3-flush hits.

Ortho · #1 06-23-2005, 05:29 PM

My poker tracker shows BB as a rock, but all I had on him at the time was that he seemed passive. UTG+1 is a fish.

I'm interested in what I should do here, of course, but also what I should generally be thinking in this spot. I didn't get much out of SSH on this point, and the Ciaffone/Brier book advises folding most of the time. Heads up, I usually call this down but I don't think I win enough to make it +EV. In this circumstance with UTG+1 calling as well I'm inclined to fold.

I'm getting 9:1 for the turn call, but it is 9:1 to draw to 2-pair and I'm worried about someone having a flush.

If you decide to take the 9:1 on the turn, do you fold the river UI, call, or overcall?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Hero...

Hojglad · #2 06-23-2005, 05:56 PM

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I'm getting 9:1 for the turn call, but it is 9:1 to draw to 2-pair

[/ QUOTE ]
So, you have 5 outs. One of which, is definitely tainted. Assuming all 5 outs were ok, this would be a break-even call. As it turns out, they most likely are not all ok, and you are drawing to 4 outs, or just drawing dead (a third queen might give someone a better hand, too). If you read this player as reasonable, you should fold this turn.

Should you decide to call the turn, you probably need to call the river too, even unimproved. You can fold to a fourth club hitting the board, though.

Shillx · #3 06-23-2005, 06:02 PM

My poker tracker shows BB as a rock, but all I had on him at the time was that he seemed passive.

Well passive play is halfway to being a rock so I would go with my read and fold. The pot is protected in that you will almost always see a showdown with the loose-passive in there. Change your read if needed depending on what gets shown down.

Brad

chopchoi · #4 06-23-2005, 06:03 PM

When the rock raises a 3 suited board, gtf out the way. Same goes for calling stations. If it were a TAG or a LAG, I would call down.

aK13 · #5 06-23-2005, 06:04 PM

Mmm...any takers for prefrop raise?

davelin · #6 06-23-2005, 06:07 PM

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Mmm...any takers for prefrop raise?

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I routinely complete this.

Hojglad · #7 06-23-2005, 06:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Mmm...any takers for prefrop raise?

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I knew someone was going to say this. There is honestly no reason to raise this preflop - you aren't going to thin the field, you are out of position, and if you whiff the flop, chances are, you don't have the best hand with K high. Oh, and also, you bloat the pot. This gives people good reason to suck out on you. It also gives you good reason to call down when you are way behind.

aK13 · #8 06-23-2005, 06:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mmm...any takers for prefrop raise?

[/ QUOTE ]
I knew someone was going to say this. There is honestly no reason to raise this preflop - you aren't going to thin the field, you are out of position, and if you whiff the flop, chances are, you don't have the best hand with K high. Oh, and also, you bloat the pot. This gives people good reason to suck out on you. It also gives you good reason to call down when you are way behind.

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Might fold out BB (rock). Meh.

DeathDonkey · #9 06-23-2005, 06:12 PM

I'd raise it. Maybe Entity will tell me not to, but we'll see.

-DeathDonkey

Shillx · #10 06-23-2005, 06:14 PM

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Mmm...any takers for prefrop raise?

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Yes raise preflop.