Pair of ladies get played into

tardigrade · #1 07-10-2004, 10:49 AM

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Raising the queens pre-flop ... a no-brainer.

Flop: (14 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero raises, CO folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

I'm raising here again, because I probably have the best hand, and I want to get people out of the pot.

Turn: (11 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

I don't like the way UTG is betting back into me here. I don't see anything on the board that looks too frightening, and I'm tempted to raise again, but I wimp out.

River: (15 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, MP1 folds, Hero calls, BB folds.

UTG is still coming after me. The king probably didn't help him, but it sure didn't help me. I call.

Final Pot: 17 BB
Main Pot: 17 BB, between Hero and UTG. > Pot won by UTG (17 BB).

Results in white below: 
UTG shows 9s 9c (three of a kind, nines).
Hero shows Qd Qh (one pair, queens).
Outcome: UTG wins 17 BB. 

Outcome as expected?

easypete · #2 07-10-2004, 10:59 AM

Not terribly expected, but I think you played well.

UTG does the stop and go. UTG could be fearing the flush draw, so he bets his trips on the flop, gets raised by you (possible flush draw). The flush card doesn't come on the turn, he needs to charge for the river card (defending his top trips against a possible flush draw).

The flush card doesn't come on the river, he bets again.

UTG played well... you played well... On to the next hand.

Peter Harris · #3 07-10-2004, 12:38 PM

agreed, in fact, you saved bets on my play as i may raise the turn, costing 2 more bets (when inevitably 3-bet). Of course, to a turn 3-bet, i may fold there, but only if my read is solid.

Regards,
Pete Harris

afk · #4 07-10-2004, 12:40 PM

He saved bets in this particular hand, but I think the turn is a clear raise most of the time here.

tardigrade · #5 07-10-2004, 02:56 PM

I felt like I was making a weak play not raising the turn, but my "spider sense" was tingling. I've been working on determining when my gut is right and I need to back off, and when I need to fight my weak tendencies and keep firing. I did the right thing this time, but I wanted to see how other people viewed the play independent of results.

adanthar · #6 07-10-2004, 02:58 PM

At higher limits, this is a clear raise. Here, it may be indicative of a weak/tight set or 2p (BTW, he played this horribly) and will often mean you're beaten. Good calldown.

tech · #7 07-10-2004, 03:46 PM

You should be raising this turn as a standard play. You will miss a lot of bets if you call down everytime someone bets into you on the turn here.

blackaces13 · #8 07-10-2004, 04:48 PM

I think a turn raise is totally player dependant. There is no right or wrong answer IMO. As a default I like a raise but if the guy is a calling station or you've seen him check/call an overpair to the river already then you should call down. If he's LAG or even if he is a solid and aggressive player a raise is probably best.

Uppercut · #9 07-10-2004, 07:03 PM

I swear to God this exact hand happened to me just about an hour ago on Party, where I raised pre-flop with my QQ and was bet into on both the flop and the turn by someone who flopped a set of 9s. BTW, I slowed down on the turn and called the river just like you did, for whatever that is worth.

Matty · #10 07-10-2004, 11:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
UTG does the stop and go. UTG could be fearing the flush draw, so he bets his trips on the flop, gets raised by you (possible flush draw). The flush card doesn't come on the turn, he needs to charge for the river card (defending his top trips against a possible flush draw).

The flush card doesn't come on the river, he bets again.

UTG played well... you played well... On to the next hand.

[/ QUOTE ]I disagree. I don't think UTG played well at all. He should have been more aggressive. On the flop, even if he were looking at a flush draw, he's still way ahead thanks to his full house draw.

With that flop:

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ah 2h 253 25.56 737 74.44 0 0.00 0.256
9s 9c 737 74.44 253 25.56 0 0.00 0.744