$200 PLO8: Do you have quads?

[sy_or_bust]

Party Poker (9 handed) converter

MP1 is wild, LP-A.

MP2 is loose and bad, but not necessarily wild. I have only seen one orbit with him. He seems to go too far with his hands, that is all I know.

I have both covered.

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero call, BB calls.

Flop: (~$5.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks. UTG checks. MP1 bets [$2]. MP2 calls [$2], Hero calls [$2], BB folds, UTG folds.

Turn: (~$11.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP1 bets [$2], MP2 calls [$2], Hero calls [$2].

River: ($21.85) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP1 checks, MP2 bets [$21.85], Hero raises [$43.70], MP1 folds, MP2 raises [$131.10], Hero ??

Questions on all streets. I'm new at this, and probably not as aggressive (i.e. raising and folding) as I should be.

Specifically, I think a preflop raise is definitely in order - in the hand I saw that the blinds were very loose (flop seen &gt; 50) and was not sure how to handle the situation. The preflop raise is obvious, yes?

On the flop I opted to call and see what happened on the turn - MP1's bet and MP2's call mean very little on their own, and I may have the best hand. Is this too loose? Should I raise? fold?

The river might show my inexperience. I attempted a value raise, and got hit with a huge reraise. What does this mean?

[sy_or_bust]

I screwed up the pot size, it's ~ double on the flop/turn.

[Jorge10]

On that board when a guy comes out firing its usually bad. I dont like the value bet because if he raises you cant call, now if you call the reraise after your value bet you will be beat just about everytime, once in a long while you will tie or run into kings, but not often. I would just call down the original bet and hope for the best. Since you went with the value bet, I really hope you folded because it looks like your crushed.

[gergery]

Preflop: I would just call from the small blind with a weak AA hand, but its preference - others would raise.

River: You are either way ahead or way behind. You only get action when crushed. so i'd just call, reraising is very bad, especailly since he could easily have a 3 the way he was min-betting there.

-g

[sy_or_bust]

Thanks guys, this makes sense. I thought there might be value in a river min-raise (intending to fold to a reraise), especially against this opponent. Perhaps this is a bad idea in PLO8. Does anyone like the river raise?

[AnyAce]

I agree with other posters. In particular, a lot of people like to play A3xx, so a 3 is very likely. At these kind of limits I have rarely if ever seen a pot size reraise with KK333 or worse. Smells like the case 3 to me.

If I were your opponent and had the case 3 I would have reraised less than the pot to see if you would call.

AA

[Wintermute]

raise? what hand will call that you beat?

[sy_or_bust]

I was (and still am, to be honest) convinced that Villain would make this bet with a TT+ overpair, and certain show down QQ+ to a min-raise, perhaps more. Villain was not a good player.

I guess he held quads, but just because it makes sense for him to hold this hand doesn't mean he won't play weaker hands the same way. I'm convinced that this isn't a great raise in PLO8, but I doubt it's awful. Is it generally wrong to make river value raises with non-nut hands, even against loose players who call a bit too often?

[Wintermute]

some non-nut hands, in certain situations, are OK to raise on the river with... but this isn't one of them. If he'll call here w/ QQ, you'll get him later. Don't risk his bet plus a raise on the proposition that he doesn't have quads.