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#1
11-13-2005, 12:32 PM
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Raise this turn? Don\'t raise the river?
MP2 is like 40/17/1.5. I've chatted with him and believe he's probably much more experienced and a better postflop player than I am. He may be a routinely higher-stakes player screwing around at the penny tables.
PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls. Flop: (12.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls. Turn: (10.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls. River: (14.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, Hero calls. Final Pot: 20.25 BB 
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#3
11-13-2005, 12:46 PM
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Re: Raise this turn? Don\'t raise the river?
Call down expecting to be beat by a straight or 2 pair. If the pot is raised at any time, fold.
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#4
11-13-2005, 12:52 PM
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Re: Raise this turn? Don\'t raise the river?
grunch
[ QUOTE ] Turn: (10.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls. River: (14.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, Hero calls. Final Pot: 20.25 BB [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]????? why didn't you raise the turn?? you have to protect your hand out there with that board. river plays very differently if you raise the turn. Baed on your turn play river play is fine.
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#5
11-13-2005, 12:58 PM
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Re: Raise this turn? Don\'t raise the river?
[ QUOTE ]
Baed on your turn play river play is fine. [/ QUOTE ] Hero is uber-spewing on the river with his one pair call turn call river (I punch my desk doing both) I might even make the hellmuthian laydown on the turn [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] edit: I don't actually - we still have outs against 2 pair tough hand
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#6
11-13-2005, 01:01 PM
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Re: Raise this turn? Don\'t raise the river?
Raise turn ... Its a big pot and it would be +EV if you folded some opponents. One bet on turn makes it an easy decision for the others to call.
There are a couple of hands that could play this way: -KK (I think it would cap PF).. but I could see KK going for overcalls on flop -QJs (May generate PFR and would go for overcalls on flop -QJo (I don't think it raises PF) -TT/99/88? is a real possibility. What does river raise gain you? If you are trying to force the others out now then its too late - you'll only force better hands to call you and force out the overcalls who are behind. If you raise for value then you would need to be somewhat confident that you have a good hand. In this case probably not a good hand but not foldable. I'm calling river vs raise
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#7
11-13-2005, 01:05 PM
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Re: Raise this turn? Don\'t raise the river?
"why didn't you raise the turn?? you have to protect your hand out there with that board." Uhh, cause you're most likely behind? "Based on your turn play river play is fine." IMO, it's spewing.
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#8
11-13-2005, 01:07 PM
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Re: Raise this turn? Don\'t raise the river?
[ QUOTE ]
Call down expecting to be beat by a straight or 2 pair. If the pot is raised at any time, fold. [/ QUOTE ] What 2pair do you think is raising preflop? 9Ts,89s,T8s (not sure I'd raise preflop unless table was extremely loose) KTs may be a PFraise. Two pair just seems unlikely to me but I agree straight is very possible. I think we are going to see 3 of a kind
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#9
11-13-2005, 01:13 PM
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Re: Raise this turn? Don\'t raise the river?
As played...What value do you see in raising the river?
I think the only people you are folding are the one's who lost anyway. The chances of winning this hand as played seem slim. Therefore, you can't bet this for value now. If you didn't raise the turn then you might as well just call down Its not like the river has now made your hand so much better.
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#10
11-13-2005, 01:20 PM
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Re: Raise this turn? Don\'t raise the river?
[ QUOTE ]
"why didn't you raise the turn?? you have to protect your hand out there with that board." Uhh, cause you're most likely behind? "Based on your turn play river play is fine." IMO, it's spewing. [/ QUOTE ] Even though you may be behind to one person I think the raise has some value on the turn. 1)Raising on Turn may fold out the other two hands that could be drawing to trips or random straight draw (unlikely straight draw folds) 2)Raising on turn may get you in a free card situation on the river. 3)You may be ahead By calling the turn you don't improve your chances of winning. At least raising may force others out of the hand giving you improved odds to win.
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