HU battle history - I think this should be really interesting...

[TheWorstPlayer]

Thanks for the response.
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hand 2 turn push is terrible given board. folding to minraise is pro.

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I'll be pro next time. I would have been pro this time, but I rushed my decision a bit since I just didn't feel like giving this guy credit for a hand. In fairness, we hadn't played against each other in a while and I forgot how generally tight he is. But still. I think folding here is definitely correct. I don't even have a big overpair. He could even have AA-JJ here for all I know.

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hand 3

perfect


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Sweet. So you never push the turn here even if you're willing to call off the rest of your stack on the river?

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hand 4

i threebet here a lot PF but my HU game is pretty ramped up PF because my opponents in gneral overrespect a 3bet.


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I thought about it but knew he wouldn't give me credit for a hand on the flop so thought I should just take a flop and try to use position to make him uncomfortable postflop. Any merit in that thinking?

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that siad i don't like a turn bet here at all cos you lose the bald bluffs and keep the hands that beat you and the solid semibluffs. i think you see QK with 1 or 2 spades here a lot.

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I think this shows a fundamental flaw in my thinking here. A lot of people are nailing his hand: KQ with a spade. I never even thought for a second that he might have such a good hand. First of all, his hand range has to be huge to raise HU out of the SB since we play pretty aggro against each other. I basically put him on ATC. Then he bets the flop, still ATC. So I have to assume that I am ahead on the turn, but he could have a spade so I want to protect. I figure that I should bet out big (I bet quickly, too) to make it look like a bluff so that he will push to re-bluff and I'll call being way ahead. The river blanked, I pulled the pot, and then I checked the HH for his hand. I was shocked.

With such a good hand, he has to figure that he is ahead a very large percentage of the time. So why push in and make me fold what he considers to be a bluff most likely? And the few times that he isn't ahead here, he has a good draw to the second nuts, which I'm never going to give him credit for. I don't see any reason why he pushes instead of calling the turn. I'm never going to fold a better hand against him here. He should just call and then check to me on the river and hope I continue my bluff! Or if a spade hits, maybe he should push and hope I call him with a smaller spade trying to snap off HIS bluff. So even though you guys are all nailing his hand dead on, I think his turn line makes NO sense for his holding! Help??

[fimbulwinter]

well, this will make no sense if ATC isnt any two cards, but i think that he's making one of those wonderful shorthanded smear bets which are kind of ambiguous but always +EV cos he doesn't know how you'll interpret the bet (you might call with a worse K for example) but he knows he wants his money in, he knows his draw won't get paid and he's willing to go a little nuts.

also, if the dude plays PLO8 then it makes a ton more sense. PLO guys in general play marginal combo hands like crazy europeans and big made hands like, well, limp wristed europeans.

fim

[TheWorstPlayer]

Yeah ATC=any two cards, thought that was standard. And yeah, I guess it could have been some sorta two-way bet. And that's interesting what you say about PLO8. That is his main game. I'm just getting into it, though, so wasn't able to spot this as a carry-over bet from there, if that's what it was (which actually makes the most sense to me.) In Holdem, though, for the reasons stated I don't like his play. He might even get paid if his draw hits by either checking to me and having me bluff or by pushing and hoping that I read it as a bluff. You really think if he pushes a fourth spade I'm laying down the ten of spades? Pretty unlikely. And there's a decent chance I bluff if he checks to me because he is not really a trapper.

[amoeba]

I have to say this is the first time I've seen the I bet pot on the turn to induce an all in bluff.

good read though.

I don't think I have the balls to play this game.

[TheWorstPlayer]

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I don't think I have the balls to play this game.

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A year ago, I almost peed in my pants thinking about stepping into a 6max game. Now I'm 4-tabling the 200s. At least for me, just forcing myself to do it, with proper support and adequate bankroll has been the absolute best thing for my game. And playing against good players has really forced me to think about the game. Obviously the NL100 6m on Party doesn't normally play like this, but I was just sitting in it for a bit to face off against my friend for fun and challenge. Maybe we should have a real real 2p2 game sometime where people don't just LAG it up for fun and to throw a party but actually with some thinking behind their play. Might be hard to enforce seriousness, though, if we play small stakes.

[wtfsvi]

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Might be hard to enforce seriousness, though, if we play small stakes.

[/ QUOTE ] I think the crazy LAGnes of the 2+2-games might come just as much from fear of doing our best and still getting outplayed. Kind of like when you hit on a girl, but make it seem like a half joke so you have an escape route if she isn't interested. Kindof anyway [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

A serious 2+2 game would be good.

[TheWorstPlayer]

I think you are probably right. Well, we can try to set one up some night and see how it goes.

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Might be hard to enforce seriousness, though, if we play small stakes.

[/ QUOTE ] I think the crazy LAGnes of the 2+2-games might come just as much from fear of doing our best and still getting outplayed. Kind of like when you hit on a girl, but make it seem like a half joke so you have an escape route if she isn't interested. Kindof anyway [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]



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No, EXACTLY like that.

[BobboFitos]

i dont like hand 3 or 4

[wtfsvi]

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..half joke so you have an escape route... Kindof anyway [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

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No, EXACTLY like that.

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Anyone see the irony?

I feel pathetic right now [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]