I suck at building pots, making money and poker in general

PoBoy321 · #1 08-09-2005, 05:36 PM

I was just at a loss in this hand. I don't mean for this to be a "I have an unbeatable hand, what do I do?" type of post, I'm really curious as to what your plan would be here. I think that one of my biggest problems in my game lately has been not being able to build pots.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (4 handed) converter

Button ($42.15)
SB ($15.10)
Hero ($260.60)
UTG ($33.45)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Button calls $1, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($3) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets $1, SB folds, Hero calls $1.

Turn: ($5) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($5) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $5, Hero raises to $20, Button calls $15.

Final Pot: $45

djoyce003 · #2 08-09-2005, 05:43 PM

If i'm in position with this hand i'll raise his bet on the flop hoping that he's got a top pair or a made flush and doesn't think I have one yet.

If i'm out of position like you are, i'll make a pot sized bet on the flop because they'll call that with a draw. Then i'll halfpot the turn, giving them just sweet enough odds to keep on drawing. Then on that river, i'd push all in hoping it looks like a desperate bluff that didn't get there and might look crazy enough to get a call from top pair, and for sure from a smaller flush. If they don't have a hand, you can't get paid which is the unfortunate part here, but you can't always flop the straight flush over ace high flush.

btetreau · #3 08-09-2005, 05:44 PM

i like the check/call on the flop.

on the turn i'd lead for something small. and i'd want it to smell like weakness, not a please-please-call bet. maybe $2?

i think you've got to lead the river, at least something. you could donkbet $1, or bet $3 hoping they come over the top. if you check and they check behind, boy that sucks. if they fold to your small bet, they won't see your hand and so they won't know you were slowplaying a monster.

results? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

gulebjorn · #4 08-09-2005, 05:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If i'm in position with this hand i'll raise his bet on the flop hoping that he's got a top pair or a made flush and doesn't think I have one yet.

If i'm out of position like you are, i'll make a pot sized bet on the flop because they'll call that with a draw. Then i'll halfpot the turn, giving them just sweet enough odds to keep on drawing. Then on that river, i'd push all in hoping it looks like a desperate bluff that didn't get there and might look crazy enough to get a call from top pair, and for sure from a smaller flush. If they don't have a hand, you can't get paid which is the unfortunate part here, but you can't always flop the straight flush over ace high flush.

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I like your line, but without a read, I'm just value betting the river.

#5 08-09-2005, 05:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If i'm in position with this hand i'll raise his bet on the flop hoping that he's got a top pair or a made flush and doesn't think I have one yet.

If i'm out of position like you are, i'll make a pot sized bet on the flop because they'll call that with a draw. Then i'll halfpot the turn, giving them just sweet enough odds to keep on drawing. Then on that river, i'd push all in hoping it looks like a desperate bluff that didn't get there and might look crazy enough to get a call from top pair, and for sure from a smaller flush. If they don't have a hand, you can't get paid which is the unfortunate part here, but you can't always flop the straight flush over ace high flush.

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I like this line as an alternative to PoBoy's, but there's no guarantee he comes along.

But poBoy: Get a grip, dude: you flopped the stone cold absolute f'ing nuts and got the guy to come along for half his stack.

PoBoy321 · #6 08-09-2005, 05:57 PM

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But poBoy: Get a grip, dude: you flopped the stone cold absolute f'ing nuts and got the guy to come along for half his stack.

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I should've gotten his whole stack.

GrunchCan · #7 08-09-2005, 06:03 PM

How are you going to get his whole stack when you have just about every card in the deck?

gulebjorn · #8 08-09-2005, 06:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But poBoy: Get a grip, dude: you flopped the stone cold absolute f'ing nuts and got the guy to come along for half his stack.

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I should've gotten his whole stack.

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That depends on what he was holding. The way I see it, there are two approaches to these things:

1) you start betting right away, leading out on every street in hopes that he has some kind of hand. This will make bigger pots, but it will lose them sometimes

2) you slowplay and hope he catches something on a later street. This will usually make smaller pots, but will keep them in the hand longer

In this hand, I like 1) because the board is so draw-heavy. A fourth diamond could kill your action altogether.

Thoughts?

swolfe · #9 08-09-2005, 06:07 PM

i like the line lead flop, check/call turn, lead river

#10 08-09-2005, 06:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But poBoy: Get a grip, dude: you flopped the stone cold absolute f'ing nuts and got the guy to come along for half his stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

I should've gotten his whole stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

That depends on what he was holding. The way I see it, there are two approaches to these things:

1) you start betting right away, leading out on every street in hopes that he has some kind of hand. This will make bigger pots, but it will lose them sometimes

2) you slowplay and hope he catches something on a later street. This will usually make smaller pots, but will keep them in the hand longer

In this hand, I like 1) because the board is so draw-heavy. A fourth diamond could kill your action altogether.

Thoughts?

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I swear my only thinking is not having any sympathy for not being satisfied with half his stack here!

In all seriousness, it looks from the play like villain (we should call this guy "victim") had a T and made his straight on the river, so I am not sure there was more to extract. But who knows? (I guess PoBoy does, since he got the guy to showdown). If he had a flush, then, yeah, maybe we coulda stacked him, and if he had an A-hi flush then maybe he shoulda been stacked, but the fact that he wasn't tells me he didn't have the A-hi flush, so I think this was a good hand.

I agree with you in general, Bear, those are the two ways of proceeding. In this situation, I would have opted to slow play and hope the guy made something along the way.