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  #41  
Old 12-09-2005, 11:28 AM
sublime sublime is offline
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Default Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria

[ QUOTE ]
So you are telling me that the Red Sox will move a gold glove third baseman over to first?

Marte is very clearly ready to get his shot at being a Major League starter. If there was no Lowell, it would be his job to lose. Since there is Lowell, he is going to have to come in and be a super-duper star to get the job. I agree, if he hits .500 with 9 HR's in spring, he will be in the lineup somewhere. Marte is most likely headed for another half season at AAA, bare minimum.

[/ QUOTE ]

gold gloves, please. they are the biggest farce of an award in MLB.

and yes, if the red sox think that marte is MLB ready then i don think either lowell goes to the bench as a DH/1B/3b/OF role or youks does.

the whole point being, marte WAS blocked by chipper jones who is a top level 3B. he wont be blocked by a 'has been' if lowell doesnt rebound.

if he starts at AAA, then its because the organization thinks its best. i am sure they have more qualified people to analyze the situation than you or I.

i am confused somewhat. marte is 'clearly ready' to be starter on a 105m payroll team, but the reteria trade was 'terrible' for the red sox?
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  #42  
Old 12-09-2005, 11:29 AM
sublime sublime is offline
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Default Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria

Not that $3 million dollars means much today but the $11 million figure is a little deceiving because it includes the $3 million dollar buy out of Renteria's 5th year option.

nice catch toro. when the 3m is 27% of the anmount the red sox shipped over, then yes it is a big deal.
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  #43  
Old 12-09-2005, 11:50 AM
rwperu34 rwperu34 is offline
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Default Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria

[ QUOTE ]
i am confused somewhat. marte is 'clearly ready' to be starter on a 105m payroll team, but the reteria trade was 'terrible' for the red sox?


[/ QUOTE ]

He is clearly ready for his chance to start. There is always the possibility that Marte goes the route of Sean Burroughs, who was rated just as highly. After all, he is still just a prospect. That is a big reason that I think this deal is so terrible for the Red Sox. They trade away a sure fire starting shortstop for a prospect at a position that they have covered. Sure, it saves them $6M/yr, but they will have to spend more than that to replace the value of Renteria, especially in an obviously inflated market.
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  #44  
Old 12-09-2005, 11:55 AM
sublime sublime is offline
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Default Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i am confused somewhat. marte is 'clearly ready' to be starter on a 105m payroll team, but the reteria trade was 'terrible' for the red sox?


[/ QUOTE ]

He is clearly ready for his chance to start. There is always the possibility that Marte goes the route of Sean Burroughs, who was rated just as highly. After all, he is still just a prospect. That is a big reason that I think this deal is so terrible for the Red Sox. They trade away a sure fire starting shortstop for a prospect at a position that they have covered. Sure, it saves them $6M/yr, but they will have to spend more than that to replace the value of Renteria, especially in an obviously inflated market.

[/ QUOTE ]

ugh. last i heard they will be playign baseball in 2007 and 2008.

the red sox dont have 3b 'covered'

not to sound rude, but after reading your analysis of the soriano deal and this one its apparent you have no idea what you are talking about.
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  #45  
Old 12-09-2005, 12:50 PM
Jim Kuhn Jim Kuhn is offline
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Default Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria

I am not real sure how this baseball saving dollars thing works? It sound like if the Cardinals sign Mark Mulder to a five year $60 million dollar contract and turn and pay someone $10 million to take him they have saved $10 million dollars in payroll? It seems to me like they would actually be LOSING $10 million dollars in payroll?

I think this trade is really hard to gauge as you are trading a proven veteran plus money for a prospect. I would think Renteria straight up for Marte would be a bad trade for the Red Sox. Giving up your starting shortstop for a player that may make it to the major leagues some day. They also created a whole at shortstop. Time will really tell with this trade.

I assume the consensus is the Red Sox made a terrible signing with Renteria? Or do people think with the added value of Marte the signing was a good one. I think another way to look at the trade is the Red Sox 'bought Marte' for $11 million as Renteria cost them nothing (probably a draft pick)?

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
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  #46  
Old 12-09-2005, 01:05 PM
rwperu34 rwperu34 is offline
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Default Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria

It is 50/50 whether Marte is ever as good as Renteria.

The Red Sox have a player that should be better than average at third base (Lowell). Third base is covered. If they have some deal worked out to unload Lowell where the other team takes the whole contract AND they can magically come up with a good shortstop, then dealing Renteria makes a little more sense.

This deal basically reverses the value added from the Beckett deal.

You sound rude. How old are you? There was a time in my adult life that I thought batting average, defense, and speed didn't mean anything.
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  #47  
Old 12-09-2005, 01:13 PM
kenberman kenberman is offline
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Default Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria

Jim,
There are different ways to look at the deal; in hindsight, or in todays terms.

Nobody would dispute that the Red Sox signing of Renteria was a disaster. But, there are no "take backs" in baseball, so they had to do what was best, today, to fix this mistake. Getting somebody to take their mistake, and most of his salary, while getting a top-flight prospect was a great solution to solve the problem.

was it worth them spending $21M or whatever (his salary, plus $11M) for 1 year of Edgar Renteria in return for Marte? I doubt it.

but was it worth them spending $11M to GET RID of the mistake, free up the reminder of the contract, while getting a top prospect? absolutely.
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  #48  
Old 12-09-2005, 02:04 PM
Toro Toro is offline
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Default Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria

I don't look at this deal as Renteria + $11 million for the prospect. I believe the Red Sox would have given Renteria for nothing to any team willing to take on his contract. It was a mistake that they wanted to erase.

Renteria was a free agent aquistion that "cost" the Sox nothing other than a draft pick. Since he wasn't playing anywhere near to his contract his "value" to the Sox was zero, maybe even less than zero.

So I look at this trade as $11 million for the prospect. Is the Atlanta Braves top prospect worth $11 million? I really don't know as there is no precedent for teams selling their top prospects that I know of.
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  #49  
Old 12-09-2005, 02:11 PM
sublime sublime is offline
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Default Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria

It is 50/50 whether Marte is ever as good as Renteria.

fair enough. however there is also a decent chance he will be better and a chance he will be scott rolenesque.

The Red Sox have a player that should be better than average at third base (Lowell).

defensively, yes. his offense is a MAJOR question mark though. again, moving to 1B is something older players do ALL THE TIME. the red sox can also afford to sit lowell and use him as a backup.

This deal basically reverses the value added from the Beckett deal.

how so? the value of the beckett deal is josh beckett. mike lowell HAD to be taken, or there would be no deal.

ok, lets break this down one LAST time!

renteria was overpaid on his current contract. the braves get him at a reduced rate that makes him worht his contract. it in essence costs the red sox 8 million to do this. in return, they get the NUMBER ONE PROSPECT IN BASEBALL according to baseball prospectus and control his rights for SIX YEARS. they project him to have multiple seasons like beltre of 04. sure he may not get there, however if he does, then this deal is a MAJOR COUP. as it stands right now its a small gamble on thr part of the red sox. OMG, please dont say "lowell is at thrid, hes blocked" THEY CONTROL THE GUY FOR SIX YEARS! teams stay great by having great players under cheap contracts (see, braves, atlanta) renteria, while a proven SS, has not been among the elite SS in thr game for two seasons now. whats going to stop thge red sox from either signing an alex gonzalez or just going with joey cora and pedroia? lol, they certainly dont need the offense.


You sound rude. How old are you? There was a time in my adult life that I thought batting average, defense, and speed didn't mean anything.



i am 26 and not rude. you are the rude one, by coming on and make posts about this deal and that deal are terrible, when you have no evidence but your own misguided opinion to back it up. if it sounds rude when i tear your arguments to shreads, i apologize. however, you are so wrong (especially on the soriano deal) that its laughable.

batting average defense and speed? who are you talking about here? soriano? his defense sucks and his 'speed' is barely above break even.
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  #50  
Old 12-09-2005, 02:18 PM
pryor15 pryor15 is offline
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Default Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria

[ QUOTE ]
There is always the possibility that Marte goes the route of Sean Burroughs, who was rated just as highly.

[/ QUOTE ]

no rational baseball person anywhere ever rated Burroughs as highly as Marte is right now. the only person who might have is Sean's mom.
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